Another tragedy caused by a right wing extremist.  Religious, right wing, extremists, are ignorant and obviously dangerous.

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Since when did being anti-muslim or a nationalist make you “right wing”?  I’d sure like to see more examples from his “manifesto” before I’m willing to swallow that line.

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I agree with Nathen.  I hope the manifesto will be published - not everywhere of course, otherwise all sorts of idiots might take it as an example, but I would sure like to read it !  Judgments on who is “right wing extremist” are made far too easily these days, especially in Europe.

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right wing, left wing, muslim, jew, extremist, an extremist is an extremist whatever label you put infront.

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It is perhaps a misfortune that such a loose term as “right wing extremest” be made the focus of the post—it was not our title, but the author’s.

What DOES matter (in terms of facts and states-of-the-world) is that if we are to take the evidence at hand, try to imagine deleting the ‘involved’ religious views, and THEN try to imagine a scenario in which, despite the absence of those views , such atrocities as those reported are reasonable… well, the whole thing kind of loses its meaning. What I mean to say is that religious views (unfalsifiable, dogmatic, superstitious, bigotry views) are at the heart of this act.

If the views that cause card-carrying Christians to behave in such a manner are NOT right wing, then so be it; upon sufficient evidence I am ready to accept. But, to the misfortune of right-wingers out there, a general public impression that points to the contrary may exist—just check out an average Fox News broadcast ( to name an easy target—anything related to Michelle Bachmann ).

Rephrasing Sonya’s point, we can at least say that religious extremests are ignorant and dangerous. Additionally (and unfortunately), it would (seemingly) be a rarity to see someone who fit the alleged bill and WASN’T, by all accounts, a right wing radical, I think.

If an alternative, general trend exists ( ...the sort discussed above… ), of which we are totally unaware, please let us know.

Otherwise, your points - Nathen and Christina - are well-taken. To invision a true democracy, we must invision a world in which polar opposition is WELCOMED, and rational debate is ENCOURAGED.

Unfortunately, the state of the world is such that one is typically encouraged more to uphold family and tribe values than to think for a second about how his or her familiar system may be flawed or improved. And it just so happens that many of those who think in a similar way to Mr. Breivik… also think like the right wing population of the U.S.A., and maybe more of the world.

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http://storyful.com/stories/1000005656
scroll down a short way … “the document manifesto, running to over 1,500 pages, that is said to go with the video. “Andrew Berwick” is listed as the author.

PLEASE NOTE: The document contains content that is extremely racist.”
hth,
susan

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I tried to read his ‘manifesto’ for a couple of hours, and what I’ve come up with in terms of motif is the following, ie my analysis:
The man has been deeply involved with this fantasy of being a Christian knight templar (he conscienciously joined the freemasons) championing a renewed yet modernized christian value system. This form of christianity should be more understood with emphasis on the aspect of it being an identity more then having true faith in christ or living to the letter of the bible. His ideologocial framework is a familiar one, anti-multiculturalism, nationalistic, in some way a very understandable position. But still, why kill so many people?
Multiple factors:A deep-rooted anger for socialist thought, a very fatalistic view on how, in his mind, cultural-marxist thought has gripped the political establishment. The bombing and the killing was necessary to create a shock, to put a stop to the whole leftist ideological system for just a moment and have it reflect in the hope that more people might stand up. I think the man truly wanted to see a sort ideological civil-war erupt in the coming years, how crazy that mind sound. He hopes for a rechristened Europe (catholic) in the future ahead. I could add more but a comment can and should only be thát long.
This is a tough one guys, the road ahead will be paved with people shouting islamaphobia and “Norway” even harder. This guy just made life more complex.
My final thought go out to the victims and their family and friends mourning their loss by this heinous act of delussions of grandeur.

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A reaction to Susan,
Actually, the man/document goes quite out of his way to state his view a very non-racist, very much similar to how Sam Harris has been called racist, or geert wilders or Ayaan hirshi Ali (yes, can you believe it?)
It’s not an accident that he went out and shoot a socialist-party gathering and not bomb or shoot one of the many (muslim-)immigrant enclaves found in Oslo.

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If he isn’t right wing, no one is…

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If you happen to hold extreme views on anything, it is, perhaps, time to do a stock-take. Chances are very great indeed that you are deluded and in fact incapable of rational thought. If you are, or know someone like this, please get a second, third, and fourth opinion, preferably from those not similarly afflicted. Being of unsound mind is treatable. And you may even come to appreciate that veritable fact. And countless others may breathe another day because you took this single, simple, important step.

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Michieux,

You assume a delusional, irrational person is capable of rational self-analysis.  By definition I would say this is impossible.

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Reading the comments attributed to him and seeing the forums he visited, I find the air he breathes similar to that Hitler and the various right-wing groups here in Munich breathed in the early 1920s; the similarities are compelling. The same siege mentality. The same fear of foreigners. The same feeling of impotence and desire to return to a golden, mythic past. The same rage against unseen powers seeking to undermine and overthrow the volk, whether Marxism or Islamic fundamentalism, both of which Breivik identified as the enemy. Whilst the Nazis found it hard to square the circle that Jesus was a Jew when appealing to people’s traditional values, so using one’s Christian beliefs to justify mass-murder seems equally remarkable. However, whereas the turgid, unreadable Mein Kampf published in 1925 (which Hitler claimed had become irrelevant within a decade and Goebbels joked about everyone having a copy and no-one reading) is banned here in Germany, those which directly influence Breivik and his ilk is readily available. Seems that forums have truly become the new beer halls, where people are immersed in their own simplistic formulae and feed each other’s paranoia.
http://www.tracesofevil.com

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This is a quote from a longer article analyzing media response:
”  ...the perpetrator was a “blond, blue-eyed Norwegian” with “political traits towards the right, and anti-Muslim views.” Not surprisingly, the man’s intentions were neither linked to these “traits,” nor to his postings on “websites with Christian fundamentalist tendencies.” Any influence “remains to be seen”; echoes of Oklahoma 1995. Interestingly, this criminal is described by one unnamed Norwegian official as a “madman.”

  ...Anyone who claims therefore, that the perpetrator’s “right-wing traits” and “anti-Muslim views,” or even links with “Christian fundamentalist” websites are irrelevant is trying to draw a veil over the unacceptable truths of such “traits” and expecting us to believe that right-wing ideology is incapable of prompting someone towards such criminality. Of course, that idea is nonsensical. Right-wing ideology was behind the Holocaust; it has been behind most anti-Semitism and other racism around the world; the notion of Europe’s and Europeans’ racial superiority - giving cultural credibility to the far-right - gave rise to the slave trade and the scramble for Africa leading to untold atrocities against “the Other”; ditto in the Middle and Far East.
link to whole article:  http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/07/media-reacts-news-norwegian-terror-suspect-isnt-muslim/40322/

Begs the question of why we are willing to call Islamic extremists terrorists but not willing to call Christian extremists terrorists??

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I am willing to call Christian extremists terrorists(?), no problem. The intention to incite terror is still a necessity though.

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Am I the only one disgusted by the rush of people pointing their ideological finger in the wake of such tragedy to imply a “I told you so” when the mourning s only just getting under way?

I find this entry, its tags and many of the comments in very poor taste and judgement.

I expected more of Project Reason.

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@15.Carlos
Are you being ironic on purpose? Don’t equate project reason with it’s ‘members’.

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When Muslim terrorists commit an outrage, the reaction of the mainstream media usually is: ‘it has nothing to do with Islam, it is a misinterpretation of Islamic teachings, etc’, in spite of the fact that Muslim terrorists explicitly refer to Islam as the reason for their acts.

These same media outlets have now no problem making ‘right wing’ blogs like ‘Gates of Vienna’ or ‘Jihadwatch’ indirectly responsible for Breivik’s murderous rampage.

Lucky that Sam Harris’s views on Islam are not mentioned in Breivik’s ‘Manifesto’, otherwise they would be quick to blame Harris, too.

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