Brilliant. It’s the official tenets of the faith itself(like Christianity etc.) that are odious, not the departure of a few zealots. Excellent.

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A pretty apt reflection of my inner-voice. I agree, the American’s ‘desire’ to show religious tolerance in this case is inappropriate and the building permit should have been denied.
Though one might argue that the erection of the ‘Freedom Tower’ overlooking the mosque might be categorized as a metaphorical display triumphant of the American spirit?

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Are you kidding me? What about this involves “spreading scientific knowledge and secular values in society”? This is singling out one religion for having violent crazies and then bashing everyone else associated.

Look, I’m sorry, but singling out any one religion for being more ridiculous than another is simply absurd.

This is small minded, thinly veiled hate speech, devoid of reason and brings down this entire project.

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Pat Pat Pat, when did you turn into an loud mouth idiot….

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Pat is a bit harsh in this video although in principle i agree with him. Cultural relativsm needs to stop. There are cultures that are clearly inferior to ours, the culture established by islam among them. Islam is a religion of hate, even more so then christianity. Why single it out? Because it is by far the most damaging.

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hey Chris—did you ever bother to read The End of Faith? or any of Sam’s articles or see his video debates/lectures?  He so eloquently articulates the perfect response to your apologetic rambling. Though even the more passive religions today are based on wishful thinking and imaginary deities - they are not even close to the virulent level of toxicity that Islam exhibits, and the real danger it poses consistently.
Do yourself a favor and read and re-read Sam’s books, Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s books, Hitchens, Dawkins, et.al….  since what you expressed in your message is a huge part of the problem - not seeing the real enemy as it truly is… right now… today.

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docfreddy,

I’ve been through your reading list but still cannot understand what is wrong with a mosque in NYC (after all they let FOX News have it’s offices there).

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acupuncturist,

you did watch the video above with Pat Condell - yes?  I couldn’t answer you any better then the salient points he expresses there. What exactly don’t you get in his message?

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Yeah, bring it to Arizona.

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This is superficially reasonable and will appeal to the same zealots and unthinking morons as any religious doctrine. Chris is totally correct I’ve read all Sam’s books and all Dawkins and all the rest but you know what? One of the messages they shout loud and clear is….... dont believe no stupid book!  so why buy uncritically into theirs?

Think for yourself. Everything is complicated. If you think you can put an important message across in a sound bite, then its not worth listening to. Its not that all faiths are deeply flawed its that all human “reasoning” is deeply flawed. You replace one set of flawed assumptions with another, why should one set of stupid beliefs be more credible than another simply because you want to believe them? All you’ve done is read a different book. The end of faith? How about the end of reason? This is just a rant.

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So what are people saying here?  That building a mosque at ground zero is acceptable, thats f***ing insane.  You guys have lost your mind.

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The number of apologetic islamophile rants on atheist sites is really mind-boggling. Sam pretty much explains the moral relativism and unrealistic beliefs of these people in The End of Faith.

Even Christian fundamentalists on some right-wing blogs like Pamela Geller’s understand the threat of Islam better than a lot of atheists - and they do have more choice under Sharia than atheists: they can become dhimmis.

The logic of any atheist that would accept the construction of a place of worship for a religion that openly advocates the murder of atheists (and that on average is taken a lot more seriously by its adherents than Christianity or other faiths) is beyond my comprehension.

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An atheist advocating for the construction of mosques is like a Jew advocating for the construction of Nazi community centers.

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We shouldn’t decide this until we’ve heard from Glenn Beck, too.

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If Blogger is your platform of choice, here are 7 awesome sites that offer free Blogger templates.

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Wow. I’m shocked at the drivel posted here. Have any of you apologists seen Pat’s other videos. He doesn’t single out islam in general. He singles them out in this video because building a mosque at ground zero is insulting to this country and as far as I know the baptists haven’t filed for a building permit. If they had, Pat would probably be on a rant about them, too. No religious buildings of any kind should be built there because it is religion that knocked them down.

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The title is misrepresentative. The mosque is not to be built at Ground Zero but a few blocks away. There are no plans for a mosque to be built on the actual site where the trade center stood.

In that same radius, what other objections should be made? How about the Saudi Arabian embassy? Should they be allowed? What about a teenage bondage masochistic strip club? I object to the establishment of a foreign owned, antidemocratic, media empire that foments violence against our elected officials, and suggest we ban Murdoch and his interests.

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KUDOS to Majority of One (comment 16).  NO religious building should be built there “because religion knocked them (the Towers) down.”  Right on.  I also agree with Acupuncturist in comment 17 - all those who spew hate, in whatever guise,  have no place in civilized society.

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nykos and majority of one are totally on target- good posts!
flo in comment #10 seems to have a problem of completely comprehending the depth and clarity of the authors he/she claims to have read.  yes flo - all faiths are flawed… but in degrees only…. and some are so completely flawed (and 100% imaginary/fairy tale based) that it is mind boggling they have any followers at all.
Islam is particularly toxic on so many levels and so imminently dangerous that it takes an entire book (like Sam’s, Hitch’s, et.al.) to just scratch the surface.
pick up Nomad - Ayaan’s new book and expose yourself to more of the real dark underbelly and stench of that faith.
and Ingrid it is ok to hate your enemy (to those that want to convert or kill you and destroy your way of life) it would be immoral, if not insane, not to.  Hitchens makes this abundantly clear. 
Hey all liberal atheists out there drop the charade of moral relativism already and wake the F up.

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This has blown up on richarddawkins.net. I think there are now 615 posts including Richard himself posting. I think some people have missed an important point. They’re talking about banning buildings that are already there…Pat is talking about a new building being erected which (at least in my opinion) is different. Some have compared it to building a Nazi community center next to Auschwitz. This isn’t about banning free speech. And, it isn’t about being politically incorrect. It is about not abusing the people who survived this horror by having them pass by a building erected in honor of the religion who inspired their grief on their way to a memorial. Have some common decency people.

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the mosque can be built near Ground Zero when Saudi Arabia starts building churches,synagogues, and a meeting hall for secular humanists.

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who cares?  I was at ground zero with the national guard and worked with an Islamic soldier who prayed in the burnt out husk of world trade center 5 amongst book shelves destroyed by fire.

If an organization pays for it they can do what they want with it.  Welcome to America.

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Flo:

“It’s not that all faiths are deeply flawed: it’s that all human “reasoning” is deeply flawed. You replace one set of flawed assumptions with another, why should one set of stupid beliefs be more credible than another simply because you want to believe them?”

Very nice. Let’s try it with an example, shall we? I believe homosexuals should have the same right to love and family life that hetersosexuals enjoy. A Taliban believes homosexuals should be buried alive. Do you really think these beliefs are equally stupid? If so, I wonder where you fetched the gall to call me an unthinking moron.

Acupuncturist:

“In that same radius, what other objections should be made? How about the Saudi Arabian embassy? Should they be allowed? What about a teenage bondage masochistic strip club? I object to the establishment of a foreign owned, antidemocratic, media empire that foments violence against our elected officials, and suggest we ban Murdoch and his interests.”

An embassy is a secular building. It represents the State of Saudi Arabia, not its government nor its religion. Should Saudi Arabia turn Buddhist, its embassy would still be its embassy.

What’s wrong with a teenage masochistic strip club? For all we know, some of the victims of 9/11 might have enjoyed having one near.

Murdoch’s media empire is promoting the ideas of a large chunk of the American population. If you don’t like them, vote against them, campaign against them, denounce them. That’s democracy.

Dog6880:

“If an organization pays for it they can do what they want with it.  Welcome to America.”

Oh, yes. Money. It trumps everything else, doesn’t it? Morals, decency, social cohesion. So if I bought a container of heroine, am I allowed to do anything I want with it, because I paid for it? Should I be allowed to sell booze to kids because I paid for it? If I own a city block, should I be allowed to use it for nuclear waste storage because I paid for it?

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9/11 was a religiously motivated attack that could not have happened without Islam and the teachings of the Koran. The hijackers were explicitly motivated by a literal reading of their religion’s holy text and nothing else. Their primary grievance was the presence of infidels in Muslim territory, which is forbidden by the Prophet. The attack had nothing to do with economics, imperialism, colonialism, racism, poverty, ignorance, insanity or any of the other whitewashes people try to apply when they are uneasy blaming Islam. Saying they were unusual fanatics suggests their beliefs lay outside the mainstream of Muslim opinion, which is not the case. They were unusual only in their determination and expertise. 9/11 was an Islamic act of jihad carried out by devout Muslims to honour their Prophet and intimidate his enemies (read: all infidels). A building dedicated to Islam anywhere in proximity to Ground Zero is a sickening insult to the victims.

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Since when does disagreement with Islam and condemnation of Islam need to lead to persecution of Islam?  I see nothing wrong with them building a mosque anywhere.  There is nothing inherently illegal about muslims assembling to pray, so what is the problem?

Sure the terrorists were religiously motivated, but that does not mean every muslim is a terrorist, and unless a mosque necessarily means that terrorists will be meeting in there, then there should not be any problem.  Let us attack the ideas of religion, not persecute the religious through the law.

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Mosques, after being built, become holy Islamic land. It’s called Wakf. This is land they have to fight for and must forever be in Islamic hands. Just like half of Spain, All of Israel, and every other piece of land Islam has and will ever conquer.
Islam is a colonialist religion. It always has been and does not apologize for it. We just don’t listen to what they keep telling us.

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I fiercely hope that everyone actually understands that the, “building of a Mosque at Ground Zero” is not taking place.

It’s not a Mosque, and it’s not at Ground Zero.  Of course wishing does not make a thing so, and thus I probably will have to accept that few virulently discussing this issue actually know the facts of the controversy.

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you ignorant PR*#K. perhaps you should educate yourself on the teachings of Islam, and the events of 9/11. Maybe the accurate information didn’t stream to London, but the rest of us should (if they are semi-intelligent people) realize not only that Islam is a religion of tolerance in itself (they recognize Christians and Jews as people of the book and therefore legitimate religions), and that their hostility towards the US was not unwarranted. It was however not justified. The point being is that if you take a few of the Crusaders…and punish Christians for all of eternity…then your hate speech directed at Muslims and suggestion that they be denied religious freedom, represents the fact that you are just as small minded as many of your American counterparts. Christianity and Islam- both have created religious wars- Christians much more brutally and over longer periods of time. Are you suggesting every Christian in America leave or be discriminated against…my guess is there would be maybe 1/4 of the country left. Congratulations on your very logical accusations and lack of intelligence. p.s. it is two blocks away…and not even a mosque. let’s continue this over tea and crumpets!

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I hope people do not waste time trying to make the building a Landmark because they can build the Mosque anyway, Landmark or not. Research before wasting your efforts.

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