In American legal history we learned that the idea of “separate but equal” created a situation of “separate and unequal” treatment of different kinds of people. 

Now, with this biblical step in American educational history, there is not even an attempt to provide children with equal opportunity in the diverse world of (non)religious ideas.  The Texans are intentionally crippling the minds of their kids.  It’s shameful and not good for the development of young American minds.

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Has anyone ever seen a curriculum of freethinking for kids?  Anyone ever heard of, or started an after-school “catechism” for kids from reasonable families?

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“I have probably said enough to convince at least my older readers that an atheist world-view provides no justification for cutting the Bible, and other sacred books, out of our education.”  Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion 344 (2006).  Now if only he could git through to th’ youngins.  You know, them’s that caint read no more.

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I see no problem with learning about a religion, it’s roots, history, mythology, implications, and beliefs as long as that study is done in a secular means and not as an equivilant to sunday school. In fact, I would wager that if more people actually knew what it was they were told they should believe, maybe more people would question it, and form their own educated opinions. Rather than just rallying around a belief system they ultimately know nothing about.

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I tend to agree with Daniel Dennet that sacred texts should be required reading. If you present folks with the actual text (not just glorified sermons from the preachers) they can see for themselves what is contained and make up their own minds.

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It is said one of the reasons religion is receding in Western Europe is due to mandetory religion in the classroom.  Education about any subject, including Christianity, is proper as long as it is education and not indoctrination.

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Voluntary courses on sacred text are an awesome idea, ESPECIALLY if they’re really maintained as courses on the text and history without any indoctrination.

What ISN’T acceptable, and it seems some of the previous commenters may have missed that, is making only the offer on a bible course mandatory. There’s absolutely no way to justify preferring one religious text over another in a public school.

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If the Bible is studied as literature, preferring it to other texts is no different than preferring the works of Mark Twain to the works of Henry James.  And who wouldn’t do that?

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Jimmy would be correct if the bible was taught as fiction but when it is taught in the context of being fact… that is scary and wrong. Raiko is right on… voluntary yes, mandatory- indoctrination; no place for it in a free thinking society.

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Of course the Bible should be taught.  It is impossible to understand western history without it.
And Asia cannot be understood without some schooling in Confuscius.  Some Voltaire is necessary for understanding the Renaissaince. 

The Texas law is perverse because it requires only the Bible, and makes other texts optional.  That is a publically funded preference for one or two religious traditions diguised as a literature course. 

The problem with the Texas law is that

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Another problem is that it’s, well, Texas. Do you really think the intention was any but indoctrination?

I agree that teaching philosophy is important, and separately, that the Bible is an important piece of historic literature, and that education in this area might actually open minds otherwise likely to remain closed. But being a required option in Texas schools, to me, is as suspect as it sounds. It will be interesting to follow the various paths these classes will inevitably take, based on the backgrounds of those who teach them.

- New Yorker, Native Texan

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ClearPursuit, actually you don’t Voltaire to understand the Renaissance. The Renaissance was over before Voltaire was born. Maybe we do need more liberal arts education, more reading of the classics including the Bible.

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“must be taught in an objective and non-devotional manner that does not attempt to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the Judeo-Christian biblical materials”

This in and of itself is a problem.  There can be nothing objective about requiring a rational person to teach that the Bible may have been written by the creator of the universe. 

The First Amendment – ‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…’

This Texas law lends to “establishment.” 

People talk about freedom of religion.  What about freedom from religion?  What choice do children have when they are subjected to indoctrination?  What a better world it would be if mythology were acknowledged for what it is.  Children should be taught to embrace the unknown and to strive to learn.

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The United States Supreme Court has stated that the Bible may be constitutionally studied as literature in American public schools, so long as the material is “presented objectively as part of a secular program of education.”  Epperson v. Arkansas, 393 U.S. 97, 106 (1968); Abington v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203, 225 (1963).  On its face, the Texas law appears to be a good-faith attempt to meet that standard.  To believe otherwise, without evidence, is to believe things without evidence.  I understand that kind of thinking is frowned upon by some people here, so best not go there, lessen you want another tedious lecture about how the smart people do.

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As a transplant to Texas, I must say that I am horrified. Despite everyone’s well wishes, best hopesand incurable optimism, if any one believes, for even a moment, that this development is at all positive, then they should get some therapy.

Since Texas realizes full well that it cannot actually secede fro the union, it does realize that can recede into primitive non-thinking and preclude rational, objective thought in the public classrooms.

If you lived here, you would recognize this as right-wing, fundamentalist borne, anti-intellectual, recidivist retreat into non-thinking. It is a defiant, anti-scientific mental entropy that can yield no merit and stultify the minds of htousands of defenseless children.

Promotion of the Bible will be ideological, hate-filled with respect to any non-Christian system of faith and promote ignorant biases. And those will be the better results we can expect.

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I keep reading in the replies above that the bible is an important piece of historic literature. Are you people completely nuts? Besides getting a few towns and kings names right its a damn fairy tale book (and a violent, bigoted one at that) complete with talking snakes and 900 year old wise men. I have read the thing. From cover to cover and it is good only for telling the mostly made up history of the Jewish faith. There is no historical proof for the exodus, the flood, the garden, No proof of Jesus, Saul, Nothing, zero, zip. Saying this book is a history book is like saying Hans Christian Anderson was a writer of documentaries.

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Yes, poetry, my bad.  I meant Enlightenment.  Thanks.

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Please excuse my grammar from previous post.  I meant to proof before posting.

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” I see no problem with learning about a religion, it’s roots, history, mythology, implications, and beliefs as long as that study is done in a secular means and not as an equivilant to sunday school. “

For that we have history classes at school. I don´t see how religion deserves or requires seperate classes at school. If there is anything to know/teach about religion then it should be handled just as any other classes: open minded and sticking to the facts. If there are no facts to a subject matter then this subject matter has no bearing on anything and is not worth the time and effort. School time is precious and must not be wasted on pointless things.
Anything about religion that is worth knowing (and that is what religion has done in the past how it affects the world and what conclusions we draw from it) belongs in history and philosophy classes, and again: while being looked upon with an open mind and going by the facts.

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For those who don’t know what academic study of the Bible looks like, Yale University has a Bible course available for free online.  Download it, and fill your heads with knowledge.

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I, for one, am not nuts, Bosn_C_Otter, far from it. But I can’t speak for others. It is a little defeating to me that those of us seemingly loosely on the same side can’t discuss things more rationally and respectfully, but then thus is the nature of comment boards.

The Bible is important historically not for its content, but for the very reason we are even having this discussion - hello? It is important because it is the very driving force behind a great portion of religion, behind the dominant religion in our immediate country, society, culture. The very “nutty” thing we overall seem to be condemning here, whose enduring history and power are undeniable.

Sorry, Jimmy, but Texas ain’t no Yale. While I won’t go as far as Ivan as to claim to know the exacts of the future, I can assure you there is a lifetime of evidence to most strongly imply the origins of this mandate. It is not to promote secular education. While you may find such intellectual efforts in urban pockets and private schools, no way would they be supported at this level in Texas. Maybe you should fill your head with knowledge on the culture of this state.

Again, aren’t most here obviously supporters of secular education? Wouldn’t we be happy to support such efforts if that’s what they truly are? They’re just not.

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Without a working knowledge of the Bible, one does not have the tools to understand much of Western art, literature, architecture and history. Much like having to have at least a working knowledge of Hellenistic and Roman religion and philosophy is important to understanding the world around us. Unfortunately, most people do not have knowledge of either the Bible or western thought. Too much TV, movies and internet I guess.

Also, Bosn_C_Otter stating that the Bible is important historical literature is not saying that it is history. The Bible is historical literature that is important to understand in understanding the world we live in.

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It is not at all clear that the Texas law, on its face, complies with the Supreme Court’s requirements set forth in Epperson and Abington.  Arguably, since the law requires a biblical elective but no other religious literature elective, it is a de facto establishment of Judeo-Christian religion and unconstitutional on its face. 

More importantly, Texas and every other state needs to get American kids up to speed in science and math.  We’re behind most of the industrialized world and that will, very soon, impact our global competitive edge.  We need a national curriculum and can easily adapt one from any one of our global competitors.

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Okay, mkm, you may be right.  You know your state better than I do.  But sometimes Texans can be misunderestimated.  Nobody thought they’d win at the Alamo, either.

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I think, in a society that is established on the premise of separation of church and state, not promoting a “state religion” etc. that the only course on religion taught should be taught in a public school is Comparative Religion.  Fair, unbiased, equal time to major beliefs, including atheism.  My opinion.

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Let Texas be a republic again.  Seriously, let’s just let ‘em go.

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Lest we forget, Jimmy, that was a Connecticut Yalie, born of a New England dynasty, who was “misunderestimated”. You can only blame Texas for so much.

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Mkm,

no your probability not nuts, but you are easily offended by a very broad statement and a pretty non-offensive word e/i “nuts” You skin is just a tad bit too thin in my opinion. the Bible may indeed be a great resource in understanding the progressive history of Christianity and Judaism, but I really don’t think that is the curriculum they will be teaching in the Texas schools. It will be more on the line of how the bible has helped mankind and all the good it has done. And how America has been built on its principles. And above all, how America has gotten away from its teachings. If you feel that the instruction will be anything else then ...well… I hesitate to call you nuts again, but..

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Poetry

On this I agree. Sadly this will not be the angle of study in the Texas school bible class.

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Don’t some Texans want to secede from the USA?  That should say a lot about this decision.

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Here is a link to the Yale Bible course if you’re interested.  Thankfully, it uses the historical-critical method.  I have had such a course at a mainline seminary and found it quite useful. 

http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/introduction-to-the-old-testament-hebrew-bible/content/class-sessions/

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Bosn_C_Otter, I’m not sure why you don’t have enough regard to read the content of my posts before commenting as if otherwise. You might notice we are in agreement on the nature and intention of the course requirement up for debate. Commenting on language has little to do with thickness of skin. That same tone is hardly going to make any headway with your philosophical foes, but perhaps that is not your purpose.

But again, my bad for expecting much serious, thoughtful debate on comment boards. I got a little sucked in while checking out the site. I would rather devote my energy to the cause at hand, and debating with those on the opposing side.

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I would be for the class, if it could be taught objectively. But I’m afraid that is impossible. If the class cannot be taught to prove the falsity of the book then no objective opinions can be generated. One thing I would like to know is, with any other book I have studied I have also studied the author, will they be studying the origins of the book or is that to touchy of a subject for them?

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Texas!? Surely it is Northern Mexico, or Old Mexico, or New Northern Mexico by demography.

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Our children should have an understanding of Human History. The pro: if the most controversial text such as “the Bible (and the history of that ERA) CAN be taught in an objective and non-devotional manner and does not attempt to indoctrinate students as to either the TRUTH or FALSITY of the Judeo-Christian biblical materials” then it seems to me it could do the children some good.
Children are NOT robots. If so, then we aren’t saying so much for ourselves. Our children should be encouraged to question authority, question religion, challenge their minds, think for themselves. And if they aren’t, then whose fault is it anyways? Science, Technology, Parents. Teachers, Government, Church, Google or Joel Osteen?
What would it hurt? My guess is that is if it became such an issue, it would be reversible. My curiosity is on edge, wondering what in the world would that curriculum consist of. What would the assignments would be? Or would it be a reading class?

But then again, seems to me like the larger concern at hand is herding sheep. What would it matter if every student turned their faith towards Christianity?  They could easily turn to Atheism, Agnosticism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Satanism… the list goes on.
And the truth is, our children will make up their own minds in time.
I would rather my child be exposed to the literature and question everything, rather than follow blindly and not know anything about the text.
And wouldn’t we want our children to learn all there is to learn?
Or have we not learned a thing from the past?
Are we the same controversy at hand, harboring our own bias opinions and wanting to expose and limit our own ideas and beliefs to our children, prohibiting them from some literature, some films, some cultures, to instill in them our own ideals, our morals, our virtues, the very things we’ve discovered for ourselves through the journey of adolescence to adulthood?
Are we not machines of familiarity, disgust, discernment, and limited perspective?
Then why should we expect our future to be?
Parents are still encouraged to teach their children, regardless of what education they receive in public schools.
And if you have ever attended a public school, or if you know anyone who attends one, you know how butchered the system is, still… and will always be.
My extreme comparison is to that of a gentleman’s club.
So, if you care that much about it, protest.
If you’re a parent, teach your children what you can.
If you want your child to have an open mind, keep in mind, they should question YOU as well.
and if you care that much, become a teacher and go teach the curriculum yourself.
let’s just ride it out and see what we all have to say about it in 2012.
Oh wait, isn’t that when the world is supposed to end?
Maybe none of it matters anyways, and we’re all just wasting time.
Mayans, what do you think?

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How do you answer a child’s question ” If so many people believe the Bible, why is the world so screwed up & filled by hate, and why does Texas kill so many people for crimes; is that not God’s job to judge?”

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