now lets do a little nation building in that country like in afghan and iraq.

I know of a young woman that married a muslim man and enjoys being controlled by him.

she even moved to a muslim country with him.

to each his or her own maybe?

naw lets free all the women in those muslim countries. it is the american thing to do.

religion is an interesting human phenomena but then so is science that tells us as fact that the whole of the universe of matter was contained in the size of a pinhead before the big bang because that is as far as the math will take them so it must be so.

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I don´t see any reason for those women to protest. If they want to be controlled by their husbands then it is their free choice to do so. This law doesn´t change anything for them if they don´t want to. The law is for the women who do not want to be controlled by their husbands.
But no, they seem to want to force the Koran upon everybody else as well. It´s not enough for them to bother about their own business. -> Obession to control others. Have they nothing better to do?

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Yes, researcher, you super-smart person. Leave the laws to please muslim women! Who cares about non-muslim women living in the same country? They can move the hell out if it does not please them to be trapped under misogynistic islamic laws! Oh wait, they probably can’t, they might just not have the right to do so. I love smart people like you, really.

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I don’t think any true American is 100% satisfied with the way in which afghan and iraq turned out. 

But regardless, women’s civil rights are incredibly important; and to support/condone/ignore a country that has unequal rights for any gender/race/religion is not only “unamerican”  but inhumane. 

This equal rights marriage law should be passed. It’s not the “american” thing to do it’s the civil thing to do. 

I agree with antx, if the young woman with the muslim man enjoys being controlled by him it is her choice and she may continue to live happily that way.  But for the unhappy Muslim women, let their lack of independence and freedom be a choice, not a product of a neglectful government.

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hahaha and raiko made my day.

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One definition of imperialism could be nation building for those nations that do not live up to our concept of democracy. Imperialism runs deep in America.

It is a self-righteous mentality and based in materialism and that is not based in love but ego gratification. But I am glad you love my smarts.

Like Vietnam’s civil war in the sixties we will spend billions maybe trillions on these two unwinable wars and they will still despise us.

We are invaders and occupiers and not to be loved but tolerated because of fear, not love.

And if you think we are in Iraq or afghan to fight terrorism you have drank the wars for profits kool aid or is it kill aid.

“don’t think any true American is 100% satisfied with the way in which afghan and iraq turned out.”

What is a true American? If a citizen of America advocated socialism would that person be a true American. If a person advocated atheism for all America would that be a true American. How about Christianity for all Americans?

Not sure I know what a true American is. I have noticed patriotism and capitalism is a lot of people’s idea of a true American. And for some evangelicals the only true American is a Christian American. America is deep in debt and hated by most of the world for trying to bring true America to third world countries.

We hate communism but where do we borrow most of our money to continue to support the failure in our approach to capitalism? China of course and from some social democracies in Europe that we detest as un-American. And some kings that have lots of oil revenue.

We get our money to continue our standard of living from communists, social democracies and kings. How true American is that?

Nation building has some side effects i.e. bankruptcy, ask England about that.

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I think it is worth noting how terribly convenient it is for the Muslim men in Mali that only poor and illiterate women are considered real Muslims.  Presumably these women have never actually read the Quran or the Hadith for themselves and have no idea what actually lies within, unlike the so-called and disparaged intellectuals, the not real Muslims.

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I hope you recognize sarcasm where you see it, but I understand you do.

I hope you also noticed that I don’t necessarily agree with the American approach to world politics - like many other people outside (and as I understand it also inside) the USA. But disagreeing with an approach has not much to do with whether or not one should intervene to establish fairness and equality at all. Worse, not agreeing with a prime motive should never lead to the idiotic conclusion that one should ignore all other reasons to intervene. So if America is/were not in Iraq for anything but materialistic reasons, the claim that therefore we should leave women in muslim countries to their fate (which is likely not a chosen one) is, in one word, dumb.

So, you might want to go back and read over your comments because taking them together this is exactly what you’re saying. Is that really your opinion or just as lousy a rhetoric as that ‘self-gratification vs. love’ one?

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So the illiterate women are demanding the right to have no rights since that’s what they have read in the Koran?

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The discussion raises an interesting question—
How do those of us in the democratic West best help support our ideals (e.g. equal rights for men and women under the law), especially when faced with countries like Mali, struggling between our values and Islamist values.  Iran is clearly in the midst of a crisis between those who seem quite ready and willing to join the modern world and the Islamist reactionaries that run the country.  I think our best bet is to try undermine any attempts by their government to curb free speech of those who oppose them.

It was no accident that the leading early feminists in the U.S. were almost all freethinkers.

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