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Let’s Talk About God

by Lisa Miller
Posted: May 28, 2009.

Print: Newsweek

The atheist writers Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens have presented us with a choice: either you don’t believe in God or you’re a dope. “It is perfectly absurd for religious moderates to suggest that a rational human being can believe in God, simply because that belief makes him happy,” writes Harris in the 2005 “Atheist Manifesto” now posted on the Web site of his new nonprofit, The Reason Project. Their brilliance, wit and (general) good humor have made the new generation of atheists celebrities among people who like to consider themselves smart. We enjoy their books and their telegenic bombast so much that we don’t mind their low opinion of us. Dopey or not, 90 percent of Americans continue to say they believe in God.

This iteration of the faith-versus-reason debate has gone on for years, with no real resolution. Men (yes, mostly men) of faith have published passionate defenses of God. (See Tim Keller’s 2008 The Reason for God.) In response, believers have published accounts of journeys toward unbelief; atheists have testified to conversions. The latest entrant in this category is from the Marxist Terry Eagleton: Reason, Faith, and Revolution: Reflections on the God Debate. Yet despite the proliferation of viewpoints, I’m guessing few readers have ever closed one of these volumes and honestly declared themselves changed.

Robert Wright’s The Evolution of God, which comes out next week, is about to reframe this debate. Wright doesn’t argue one side or other of the “Is God real?” question. He leaves that aside. Instead, he grapples with God as an idea that has changed — evolved — through history. Wright is a journalist who specializes in evolutionary psychology, and his previous book, Nonzero: The Logic of Human Destiny, was a reported meditation on the way human evolution changes us for the better. Over time, we’ve grown more moral, more responsible and more inspired. In The New York Times Book Review, the British paleontologist Simon Conway Morris threw down the gauntlet: he accused Wright “of a failure of nerve.” Why not, he asked (and this is my rephrasing), connect that sublime human capacity for moral behavior to the thing that some people call God? (Writing in Slate, the Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker took the opposite tack, accusing Wright of providing ammunition to advocates of intelligent design.)

Wright picks up the challenge in The Evolution of God. He argues that the scriptures of the three Abrahamic faiths were written in history by real people who aimed to improve things — economic, social, geographical — for their constituencies. (And then he exhaustively, minutely catalogs who those writers were and what those specific aims might have been. This is not a book to read on the beach this summer.) But he never argues that what he calls a materialist view of scripture disproves God. Instead, he takes another approach: as our societies have grown more complex and more global, our conceptions of God have grown more demanding and more moral. This is a good thing, for religion can “help us orient our daily lives, recognize good and bad, and make sense of joy and suffering alike.” Wright is optimistic even about Islam in today’s world: “The ratio of good to bad scriptures varies among the Abrahamic faiths, but in all religions it’s possible for benign interpretation of scripture to flourish.”

Though he never comes right out and declares that the human propensity for morality — and, by extension, truth and love — is given by God (or is God), he comes awfully close. In an imaginary debate with a scientist, he compares God to an electron. You know it’s there, but you don’t know anything real about what it looks like or what its properties are. Scientists believe in electrons because they see the effects of electrons on the world. “You might say,” he writes in his afterword, “that love and truth are the two primary manifestations of divinity in which we can partake, and that by partaking in them we become truer manifestations of the divine. Then again, you might not say that. The point is just that you wouldn’t have to be crazy to say it.” (I can already hear Steven Pinker typing like mad.)

With those three sentences, Wright gives relief and intellectual ballast to those believers weary of the punching-bag tone of the recent faith-and—reason debates. The arguments are “fun, but they degrade the academy,” said Great Britain’s chief rabbi, Jonathan Sacks, at a dinner sponsored by the Templeton Foundation recently. What they miss, he says, “is that the meaning of the system lies outside of the system and the meaning of the universe lies outside the universe.”

The Evolution of God admits this definition as a possibility. But there are other possibilities as well. In a recent poll by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, 60 percent of respondents said they believe in “a personal God.” But what exactly do they mean? That God is like a person? That God talks to them, personally? And what of the others, who imagine God as “an impersonal force”? When people say they believe in “God,” they might be talking about what Harris calls an absurdity. Or they might be talking about the mysterious, unknowable qualities in life (or outside of life) that make us strive toward our best selves.

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Comments (17)

The difference between gods and electrons is that the concept of electrons is a logical result of observing nature and allows for testable predictions. Any sufficiently intelligent and curious being would eventually come up with a concept similar or equal to electrons, while it is highly unlikely that it would come up with a concept similar or equal to mankind’s idea of gods.

posted on May 28, 2009
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Well, how great for Wright to have found himself a definition of God that he can reconcile with his world view, even if the term ‘GOD’ is totally misleading for it. Why? Because this God of Wright happens to be the kind of God only the fewest of the few talk about when they use that name.

posted on May 28, 2009
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[religion] “help us orient our daily lives, recognize good and bad, and make sense of joy and suffering alike.”

Really ? So I won’t know not to lie, steal or kill without religion ? Bullshit ! But I do agree that it makes sense for those who suffer - however I have more joy without it.

posted on May 28, 2009
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I can’t, for the life of me, discern how this “re-frames the debate”. And even if our perceptions of God have evolved, that doesn’t affect the likelihood that he doesn’t exist. Maybe this is fancy talk for “making it up as you go along”.....


More irritating, though, is the lack iof substance and argument in Lisa Miller’s article. It’s throwaway trash.

Come on, Lisa. Why not actually confront some of the comments you have reported, such as Rabbi Sacks’ “What they miss is that the meaning of the system lies outside of the system and the meaning of the universe lies outside the universe…”? Classic arrogance. Why not explore his intellectual laziness and presumption of the word “meaning”  and his clumsy hi-jacking of a scientific notion “the universe”.

Perhaps I’ve misunderstood journalism. Maybe it’s about producing filler that appears to have substance and is supposed to make the reader feel good simply by being associated with an article.

posted on May 29, 2009
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I understand that there are some people that might feel better thinking there is a God on their side.  In stressful situations that might calm them.  The main PROBLEM is when people try to apply their beliefs into our society when there are hundreds if not more, of different beliefs.  Religion, if it must be there, should not have anything to do with education or politics.  That is the main argument of many atheists.  Simply….. mind your own business.  As long as we help each other, perfect.  You wanna believe in God? Fine, at least accept that when “God” saved you from that accident, there was a EMS officer that got you out of the situation and there has been tons of research done that guided doctors and humans into the best course of action to save you. 

The Evolution of God - It is simply a broader undersanding of how nature works and what makes us tick.  In order for us to survive we must not depend on the invisible but on ourselves.

Instead of praying for miracles…. Lets make them happen.

posted on May 29, 2009
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Me! Me! [waves wildly] I put down a Sam Harris book and declared myself forever changed. Me! Me! Me![breakIntoSemaphore]

posted on May 29, 2009
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I have never found that love, faith, logic, reason, or morality has anything whatsoever to do with superstition, but I will not belittle those that do. (But it’s ok if you do. That’s cool, sorry, just not a place I ever wanted to go - and I’ve been here a long long time.

posted on May 29, 2009
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I have never found that love, faith, logic, reason, or morality has anything whatsoever to do with superstition, but I will not belittle those that do. (But it’s ok if you do. That’s cool, sorry, just not a place I ever wanted to go - and I’ve been here a long long time). I prefer to observe and even participate, all knowing where I stand. A surprising percentage of the other participants are benign to this attitude and even positive. I want to hear all voices, and many of even the most recalcitrant will agree, and a few even want to as well. But I must admit, that the more extreme voices you then hear, though are repulsive, abhorrent, and too often violent, I then do not speak out against.

posted on May 29, 2009
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“Or they might be talking about the mysterious, unknowable qualities in life (or outside of life) that make us strive toward our best selves.”

Surely it’s the KNOWN qualities in life that should motivate us to strive towards our best selves? We have already gathered a tremendous amount of information about the make-up of the universe, the evolution of life on earth, the make-up of our bodies, the kinds of behaviour patterns that are conducive to creating peaceful and productive human interactions. What exactly are these ‘unknowable qualities in life’ that make us strive toward our best selves?

posted on May 30, 2009
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“We enjoy their books and their telegenic bombast so much that we don’t mind their low opinion of us. Dopey or not, 90 percent of Americans continue to say they believe in God.”

here we go again with stupid people wearing their ignorance proudly as if there was some dignity in it. This reminds me of people who voted for George W. Bush because they wanted a “regular guy” in office, not some smarty pants liberal elite. Is it just me, or are these people insane? Since when was it good to be dopey?

posted on May 30, 2009
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11. isocratic infidel

Well, well, well, apparently Newsweek isn’t hiring objective reviewers these days. I re-read Sam’s manifesto and nowhere did he call god believers “dopey.” I also found it interesting where she chose to cut off the quote she cited: after the word “happy” with no mention of the fear of death that came afterward in the manifesto, revealing, perhaps, her subconscious desire to continue to avoid the obvious.
It has been my experience that believers have a tendency to presume, profess, project and protest too much. In brief, believers presume that because they have numbers on their side that theirs is the correct one; believers profess to possess secret and sacred information and knowledge that could be available to the atheist if only they would humble themselves and have a little “faith”;  believers tend to project the fear and hatred they have for atheists onto the atheist, saying it is the atheists who fear and hate them; and finally, they protest against non-believers thinking non-be’s want to rule the world, when myths and theology has had held the reins and made the rules in societies for essentially the whole of hominid existence.  Seems to me the believers are prisoners of their own divisive fears and perceive insults where there are none, distort facts and make feeble attempts at humor to disguise and protect their delusions so they can continue to ignore/deny the obvious.

posted on May 31, 2009
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The defence of religion writings by Lisa Miller are typical of religious intellectual bullies who sell the idea that their gods need nothing of proof. They use their pseudo academia to railroad followers into submission. There is insurmountable sound information available to all on the way religions have evolved. However, the religious still desperately cling to the hope that ritual and (obvious) superstition will put all matters to right. We all want a better world and I can’t see how this can ever be achieved by groups of sects who deep down dislike each other intensely claiming that only their way is the truth

posted on June 1, 2009
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I actually like that, “either you don’t believe in god, or you’re a dope.”  A dope concerning this topic at least.  It is always amazing to me how people can be so smart in general, yet just can’t seem to see though this one HUGE lie!

posted on June 3, 2009
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The God idea requires belief. Why? Because for we finite beings, an infinite, self-caused being cannot, by definition, make any sense.

All things One through balance is different. You don’t have to believe in balance. Two five-years-olds playing on a see-saw don’t believe in balance. They know balance intuitively and experientially.

All you have to do to get to All things One through balance is to expand the balance we experience to include the totality of existence.

Granted, that doesn’t prove All things One through balance, but it is a natural explanation for existence that makes sense within our finite limitation.

As for the source of morality, enlightened self-interest does the trick. That’s what the Golden Rule in all about. You know, “Treat others as you wish to be treated.” Of course, we humans do not anymore obey the Golden Rule than we do the Ten Commandments.

For more on this, see “Why is there something rather than nothing?” and “What is the true nature of existence?” at http://www.donnee.com

posted on June 7, 2009
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Reply to Jeffry
Your comments on belief are lacking in substance and as such seem naïve. The very Idea that: “You don’t have to believe in balance to have experience of it. Two five-years-olds playing on a see-saw don’t believe in balance. They know balance intuitively and experientially.” is defeated by the word experience.
Balance is a mechanical activity and no matter how one begins to perceive it, it is something that can be simply understood and proven by basic experiment. However, Gods and other such ideas whilst being something that human beings can experience through imagination and dreams are just pathological inventions from a need to believe there must be something more than just this amazing life. Religious brains continually seek glib explanations check out Thomas Aquinas a superb example of nonsense posing as intellect:  Summa Theologia Article II. Whether the existence of God is demonstrable: Faith loses out all the time for the simple reason that there is never any available proof whatsoever. This is sadly why children need to be oppressed by relentless repetition of dogma and ritual to deflect those beautiful questions that demand proof accompanies experience

posted on June 8, 2009
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Reply to Clifford

Thank you for your comment.

Yes, it is naïve to think there is any truth apart from its context. Take science. We think that what science says is true yet all of science depends on its context (fundamental assumption) that existence is Many (individual objects with unique identities).

Who could possibly question that? Well, the first line of Hindu scripture (“All things One”) going back some 8,000 years questions it. In fact, the Hindus have a term for the scientific context—maya (illusion). It is common in the West to thinks all things One soft-header, but remember that Bell’s Theorem and the the Aspect experiment demonstrate a non-local quantum universe that supports all things One and deconstructs the traditional Many context of science.

The context for the God concept is Many (as defined in traditional Western theology, we and God are individuals with unique identities).

Different contexts, different truths.

posted on June 8, 2009
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there’s always those things that we can’t really explain just by science and that is where i believe in the existence of a God.. but there were different versions, etc… what do you guys think about it?


joyce

posted on June 11, 2010
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