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The lesson: Be careful about repeatedly nagging a large group of teens not to do something, because there’s every chance that one of those teens has a neurological tendency toward opposition.
The security guard on the bus told the New York Daily News that he had warned the teens multiple times not to tamper with the rooftop hatch.
This story is of a terrible tragedy arising from typical teenage risk-taking behaviour. Youngsters out for a good time, showing off in front of each other and then someone goes too far. Very sad and unfortunate.
I used to work with a lot of kids who were diagnosed with ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). Some seemed ever ready to go against the grain and then attack when challenged on their questionable behaviour. Very in-your-face and argumentative. Minor disagreements can easily escalate into shouting matches and destruction of property. Degrees of intensity and frequency vary so I suppose the question for some of them was do they deserve the labelling or are they just feisty?
Other diagnoses included ADHD, Tourettes Syndrome, Inflexible Explosive Disorder, Reactive Attachment Disorder, Aspergers Syndrome, Depressed - sometimes ‘all of the above’. Interesting characters.
. . . Degrees of intensity and frequency vary so I suppose the question for some of them was do they deserve the labelling or are they just feisty?
Other diagnoses included ADHD, Tourettes Syndrome, Inflexible Explosive Disorder, Reactive Attachment Disorder, Aspergers Syndrome, Depressed - sometimes ‘all of the above’. Interesting characters.
Yes, and tourettes seems to be a useful diagnosis for some, even it it’s not entirely legitimate. One kid I worked with was severely impulsive though it wasn’t what could be called neuro-based but rather psychologically based. He’d also been diagnosed with autism a few years before I met him, which turned out not to be a valid diagnosis of his inherent neurological makeup—the autistic-like behaviors were only psychologically based in a sense, due to his family situation at the time. Once he had a tourettes diagnosis, he finally got into a school that was able to help him. That was around age 8, and now he’s finally well enough to be attending a regular public high school though he needed to be in the special school (for kids with Asperger’s) for about 5 years. Another kid has both impulse control trouble and oppositional tendencies, plus severe attentional difficulty. These behavioral ways are clearly neurologically present rather than psychologically based, and the pediatrician and neurologist are in the process of long-term attempts at finding just the right combination of meds. (He’s also retarded-savant and has epilepsy which is currently controlled.)
I feel for the guy who repeatedly nagged the kids on the bus. If something like that were to happen to kids in my care, I’d probably feel awful for the rest of my life.
I wonder if the irrational and ghoulish obsession with scapegoating is uniquely american? Is there ever an instance where an accident happens to an idiot just because he’s an idiot?
I feel for the guy who repeatedly nagged the kids on the bus. If something like that were to happen to kids in my care, I’d probably feel awful for the rest of my life.
I suspect it would be much worse if he hadn’t nagged them.
I feel for the guy who repeatedly nagged the kids on the bus. If something like that were to happen to kids in my care, I’d probably feel awful for the rest of my life.
I suspect it would be much worse if he hadn’t nagged them.
Probably so, but if a kid is oppositional enough, the nagging itself can tempt him. An emergency hatch can’t be locked though, so no law was broken at least. And now the driver has a horror story to tell the next time he’s driving teenagers.
severe oppositional behavior is a great thing -
great to get teens to do what they really don’t want to do just to defy your authority -
worked in my house!
It takes more than reverse psychology to manage some of the troubled and complicated youngsters I work with.
I think Shyning was being tongue-in-cheek, cunjevoi. What sometimes works is to come up with phrasing that manages not to sound like something that can be opposed. For instance, if a child has an impulse-control habit that can escalate into violent behavior, a teacher or staff person might remind him when necessary by saying “watch out!” rather than something such as, “stop pinching her!” Other strategies can be sought that dovetail or at least comply with the child’s preferred ways of acting, such as involving social-interaction requirements for a task he needs to do—if the child has an outgoing personality, that is.
How about you, cunjevoi? Any strategies that work for the oppositionally-inclined in your bag of tricks? I could always use more.
How about you, cunjevoi? Any strategies that work for the oppositionally-inclined in your bag of tricks? I could always use more.
Well nv, from experience, I would say that the basic (across-the-board) strategies like the provision of stimulating, motivational lessons full of meaningful content and thorough preparation/planning are crucial.
Specifically for oppositional students, I found that my natural non-authoritarian approach was beneficial for avoiding escalations. Working in close collaboration with other staff members was always effective. You know, a bit of good cop/bad cop sort of negotiation. Someone giving occasional, stern reminders of expectations/boundaries with a gentler character assuring the student that every day is a new day and no grudges are held.
Always focusing on postives and giving praise where appropriate. Also, some crowd control measures like the ol’ “divide-and-conquer” - for want of a better term. Overall, though, I always held that positive role modelling was of key importance. And a colleague once advised that the student needs to feel as though they matter, which always rang true with me. That’s just off the top of my dome, you know, this is the subject of an entire thesis.
Most importantly, learning should be FUN!
Cheers nv. I’ll get back to ya as I think of more stuff.
Yes. You don’t mention it directly, but the implication is that currently-in-place moral systems do not exclude education of the retarded. In the U.S. these days, such education is expensive and attempts to accomplish a great deal, at least according to the typical Individual Education Plan.
For me, this presents evidence toward the notion of today’s systems of morality (social mores, values, laws, regulations and accompanying institutions) not working to support species longevity but rather comfort, convenience, and various effective life meanings many of which rely on ancient invention. Darwinian (biological) evolution is tough and anything but politically correct. People are not animals, after all. People are special, and they have rights.
How about you, cunjevoi? Any strategies that work for the oppositionally-inclined in your bag of tricks? I could always use more.
Well nv, from experience, I would say that the basic (across-the-board) strategies like the provision of stimulating, motivational lessons full of meaningful content and thorough preparation/planning are crucial.
Specifically for oppositional students, I found that my natural non-authoritarian approach was beneficial for avoiding escalations. Working in close collaboration with other staff members was always effective. You know, a bit of good cop/bad cop sort of negotiation. Someone giving occasional, stern reminders of expectations/boundaries with a gentler character assuring the student that every day is a new day and no grudges are held.
Always focusing on postives and giving praise where appropriate. Also, some crowd control measures like the ol’ “divide-and-conquer” - for want of a better term. Overall, though, I always held that positive role modelling was of key importance. And a colleague once advised that the student needs to feel as though they matter, which always rang true with me. That’s just off the top of my dome, you know, this is the subject of an entire thesis.
Most importantly, learning should be FUN!
Cheers nv. I’ll get back to ya as I think of more stuff.
I’ll look forward to more, cunjevoi. I did an internship with the Suzuki Institute and learned about the value of shaping via emotional strumming, so to speak. Those folks really understand how motivation works. Thanks for the reminder.
Yes. You don’t mention it directly, but the implication is that currently-in-place moral systems do not exclude education of the retarded. In the U.S. these days, such education is expensive and attempts to accomplish a great deal, at least according to the typical Individual Education Plan.
For me, this presents evidence toward the notion of today’s systems of morality (social mores, values, laws, regulations and accompanying institutions) not working to support species longevity but rather comfort, convenience, and various effective life meanings many of which rely on ancient invention. Darwinian (biological) evolution is tough and anything but politically correct. People are not animals, after all. People are special, and they have rights.
I don’t think Mr. Fernandez was retarded, was he? I didn’t see that in the article. I guess my point is that it’s hard to feel much sympathy for someone who behaves so stupidly. At least he himself was the only victim.
This same thing happened in San Francisco about ten years ago. A woman stuck her head out the top of a bus inside a tunnel, but there was an abrupt change in the height of the tunnel’s ceiling. Her husband tried to sue the city of San Francisco, but (amazingly!) the suit was rejected. I suspect Mr. Fernandez’s parents will probably try to sue someone over his accident, too.
I don’t think Mr. Fernandez was retarded, was he? I didn’t see that in the article. I guess my point is that it’s hard to feel much sympathy for someone who behaves so stupidly. At least he himself was the only victim.
No, he wasn’t retarded. I was riffing off the word “special,” as most of the kids I deal with are retarded, and what Mr. Fernandez did was typical of what a retarded child might do if he’s not being supervised closely enough. Stupid people—whether actually retarded or not—are marks for Darwin to pick off. But society does what it can to allow the stupid to assimilate, and to make them feel at home.
I don’t think Mr. Fernandez was retarded, was he? I didn’t see that in the article. I guess my point is that it’s hard to feel much sympathy for someone who behaves so stupidly. At least he himself was the only victim.
No, he wasn’t retarded. I was riffing off the word “special,” as most of the kids I deal with are retarded, and what Mr. Fernandez did was typical of what a retarded child might do if he’s not being supervised closely enough. Stupid people—whether actually retarded or not—are marks for Darwin to pick off. But society does what it can to allow the stupid to assimilate, and to make them feel at home.
And how effective do you think we are at making them feel at home, given your exposure to them? Do you think they’re contributing their fair share to net well-being?
I only know a little about a limited area—California, where I live. A few decades ago, a legislator named Frank Lanterman felt that certain changes were in order, and the courts agreed.
The Lanterman Act declares that persons with developmental disabilities have the same legal rights and responsibilities guaranteed all other persons by federal and state constitutions and laws, and charges the regional center with advocacy for, and protection of, these rights.
In addition to persons with mental retardation, the regional centers are now mandated to serve persons with cerebral palsy, epilepsy, autism, conditions similar to mental retardation, or conditions that require treatment similar to the treatment required for individuals with mental retardation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanterman_Developmental_Disabilities_Act
Lanterman’s efforts provided retarded people—as well as those who might appear to be retarded as a result of medical conditions in childhood—a place in open society in California. I assume other states have by now developed similarly, but I don’t know how widespread the Lanterman approach is. Lanterman’s efforts have also saved the state an enormous amount of money, as community-based residential expenses are a small fraction of what large-institution costs tend to be.
I can only assume that intellectually disabled people are better off now than they were a few decades ago. We can also thank Geraldo Rivera for publicizing horrific living conditions in a large facility on Staten Island. And understanding of autism has improved significantly during that time as well, thanks in part to the work of Temple Grandin.
Do members of this population contribute their fair share to the well-being of society? That’s not a question that can be answered easily regarding a community of people as diverse as they are. Some do and others don’t.
[ Edited: 21 September 2012 06:27 AM by nonverbal ]
Do members of this population contribute their fair share to the well-being of society? That’s not a question that can be answered easily regarding a community of people as diverse as they are. Some do and others don’t.
True. I think the answer also depends on the observer.
