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The Superiority Of The Christian Revelation
Posted: 08 September 2012 10:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 346 ]
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unsmoked - 08 September 2012 11:03 AM

Consider just two quotes from Walt Whitman’s writing:

“I believe a blade of grass is no less than the journey-work of the stars.”

“Every moment of light and dark is a miracle.”

I’m not aware of anything like this in the teachings attributed to Jesus.  New Testament miracles are spectacular unnatural events intended to “wow” people who are accustomed to believing in spectacular unnatural events - like a woman turning into a pillar of salt, like two of every animal species climbing the gangplank onto a giant boat, like the oceans parting to allow God’s chosen people to escape their oppressors, like God carving his dictates on stone tablets.  Comparing the Bible to Whitman’s ‘LEAVES OF GRASS’ is like comparing Disneyland to the Smithsonian. 

The superiority of the Christian revelation?  The superiority of Disneyland over the Smithsonian?  The superiority of Fantasyland over NOVA?

In Whitman’s writing there is no moralizing and really hardly any form of judgement, just a pure and wise reporting of the nature of the world and of the human condition in the world. Other great writers like Shakespeare and even those well before the renaissance including some of the ancients who wrote well before christianity appeared are vastly superior to anything in the biblical scripture and that includes the New Testament.

If you read “Leaves of Grass” or any other of Whitman’s works, then you will understand what love is about . . . the journey-work of the stars . . . it’s love. Then you read the New Testament, or for pity’s sake the Old Testament, and there is no love in there at all. Just pompousness and preachyness - “for God so loved the world . . .” oh for pity’s sake what a load of crap!

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Posted: 09 September 2012 12:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 347 ]
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can zen - 08 September 2012 10:44 PM
unsmoked - 08 September 2012 11:03 AM

Consider just two quotes from Walt Whitman’s writing:

“I believe a blade of grass is no less than the journey-work of the stars.”

“Every moment of light and dark is a miracle.”

I’m not aware of anything like this in the teachings attributed to Jesus.  New Testament miracles are spectacular unnatural events intended to “wow” people who are accustomed to believing in spectacular unnatural events - like a woman turning into a pillar of salt, like two of every animal species climbing the gangplank onto a giant boat, like the oceans parting to allow God’s chosen people to escape their oppressors, like God carving his dictates on stone tablets.  Comparing the Bible to Whitman’s ‘LEAVES OF GRASS’ is like comparing Disneyland to the Smithsonian. 

The superiority of the Christian revelation?  The superiority of Disneyland over the Smithsonian?  The superiority of Fantasyland over NOVA?

In Whitman’s writing there is no moralizing and really hardly any form of judgement, just a pure and wise reporting of the nature of the world and of the human condition in the world. Other great writers like Shakespeare and even those well before the renaissance including some of the ancients who wrote well before christianity appeared are vastly superior to anything in the biblical scripture and that includes the New Testament.

If you read “Leaves of Grass” or any other of Whitman’s works, then you will understand what love is about . . . the journey-work of the stars . . . it’s love. Then you read the New Testament, or for pity’s sake the Old Testament, and there is no love in there at all. Just pompousness and preachyness - “for God so loved the world . . .” oh for pity’s sake what a load of crap!

Agreed. The bable is not a good place to go if you’re looking for love. Lots of vengence, punishment, war, geneocide ... topped off with a good dose of hellfire and damnation. There’s bugger all love, though.

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Posted: 09 September 2012 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 348 ]
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stardust91977 - 07 September 2012 05:24 PM
Answerer - 06 September 2012 06:39 AM

Why do you keep harping on this point? Do you think I’m uneducated and was born yesterday? I know basically about statistics and the scientific method. When I expressed that I have liberal Christian friends that have little to no difference with me (eg, support gay marriage), you sloughed it off as pandering. Your argument on the generalization point is moot. It is foolish of you to take this tact in trying to discredit me. If you can support that a majority of Christians actually support gay marriage, or oppose it for scientifically valid reasons, and my language remained the same, you might be able to make the case. I’m just saying that as far as a superior revelation regarding Christian “love,” the case isn’t made. This is only one example but in my view the greatest and most obvious test.

I wasn’t harping on anything. You generalize about theists and atheists all the time. All I was doing is clarifying.


Look, it’s not that I dislike you, only that if you want to call out others for the dehumanizing, demeaning and dangerous generalizations they make about atheists, then you should be willing to be called out when you do the same to theists. If you think it’s wrong for them to do it, then how on earth can you insist that it’s okay for you to do it? Where is the reason in that?

You’re quibbling over the fact that I don’t use the adjectives some, many or most before Christians in every reference, when the noun should be understood as the majority. Provide me the same statistical evidence about atheists and I won’t object.

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Posted: 09 September 2012 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 349 ]
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[ Edited: 21 January 2013 11:43 PM by stardust91977 ]
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Posted: 09 September 2012 11:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 350 ]
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[ Edited: 21 January 2013 11:43 PM by stardust91977 ]
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Posted: 09 September 2012 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 351 ]
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But, Dusty, none of that has anything to do with love as we know it.

You’re sounding like a talking bible or koran.

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Posted: 09 September 2012 12:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 352 ]
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[ Edited: 21 January 2013 11:43 PM by stardust91977 ]
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Posted: 09 September 2012 12:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 353 ]
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[ Edited: 21 January 2013 11:43 PM by stardust91977 ]
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Posted: 09 September 2012 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 354 ]
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DUSTY: Caring about the oppressed has nothing to do with love? Comlaints about others spitefully using the weak and the weary in society has nothing to do with love?

Yes, caring about the oppressed etc… all that has to do with love. But you’ll find precious little of that in the Bable.

What I can’t understand about you, Dusty, is that you seem to be preaching love, but at the same time you are saying that religion is the way to get there. We know from millenia of experience that this is not the case. Religion would have to be the last way we would atttempt to propogate love in the modern world. After all, it has had fuck all success thus far. Just war, geneocide, child abuse….  You cazy or what? To get ourselves better, religion is the disease we need a cure for. Then we can really start loving each other and doing unto others….

[ Edited: 09 September 2012 01:47 PM by Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) ]
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Posted: 09 September 2012 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 355 ]
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[ Edited: 21 January 2013 11:43 PM by stardust91977 ]
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Posted: 09 September 2012 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 356 ]
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[ Edited: 21 January 2013 11:42 PM by stardust91977 ]
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Posted: 09 September 2012 03:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 357 ]
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Thirteen and a half.

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Posted: 09 September 2012 03:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 358 ]
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[ Edited: 21 January 2013 11:42 PM by stardust91977 ]
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Posted: 09 September 2012 06:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 359 ]
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No. And I did not say we needed to get rid of the religious or anyone else. But the death of religion would, for me, be a cause for great celebration.

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Posted: 09 September 2012 06:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 360 ]
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Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 09 September 2012 03:03 PM

Thirteen and a half.

Stop bragging.

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