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Posted: 22 July 2012 08:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

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Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

Kissing Hank’s Ass
The Way of the Mister, Vol. 1: Reparative Therapy

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Posted: 22 July 2012 08:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Ecurb Noselrub - 22 July 2012 06:13 PM

Ah, the Pomo Native American tribe of California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomo_people

Do they have a casino?

Yep.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lytton_Band_of_Pomo_Indians

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Posted: 23 July 2012 02:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 


Objective morality will take sophisticated reasoning—since a moral agent must act in situations tht are ill defined, moral decsion making goes to a set of implicit behvioral responses emerging in response to unfolding situations.

Thus, the problem with rules stated as categorical. The 10 commandments are absurd because of their inflxibility—Kant’s impertive is a good place to start.

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Create the life you want with what you have - do not wait.

Ken

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Posted: 23 July 2012 05:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Where’d Lillian go?  Could she be watching pomo-flicks?

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Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream.

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Posted: 23 July 2012 06:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Skipshot - 22 July 2012 08:33 PM
Ecurb Noselrub - 22 July 2012 06:13 PM

Ah, the Pomo Native American tribe of California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomo_people

Do they have a casino?

Yep.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lytton_Band_of_Pomo_Indians

That’s right—I’d forgotten about that one even though I’m geographically close to it.

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Posted: 23 July 2012 04:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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zkwest - 23 July 2012 02:43 AM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

 

Objective morality will take sophisticated reasoning—since a moral agent must act in situations tht are ill defined, moral decsion making goes to a set of implicit behvioral responses emerging in response to unfolding situations.

Thus, the problem with rules stated as categorical. The 10 commandments are absurd because of their inflxibility—Kant’s impertive is a good place to start.

I fixed your quotes for you.  In your previous post, you gave me credit for your words…

From reading Parfit, I now believe that although Kant’s basic thrust was brilliant, his work has been beat on pretty hard over the years revealing some holes in his logic.

I believe Parfit’s Kantian revisions have distilled the essence of what Kant was shooting for, and has given his work a new lease on life.

I look forward to hearing more of your ideas

[ Edited: 23 July 2012 06:19 PM by Jeff M ]
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“Dream or nightmare, we have to live our experience as it is, and we have to live it awake.  We live in a world which is penetrated through and through by science and which is both whole and real.  We cannot turn it into a game simply by taking sides.”

-Jacob Bronowski

“A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward.”

-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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Posted: 23 July 2012 06:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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GAD - 22 July 2012 08:21 PM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

You are right, I would not.  Of course, killing baby’s is a measurably bad outcome in its self, so your premise has no legs. smile

 Signature 

“Dream or nightmare, we have to live our experience as it is, and we have to live it awake.  We live in a world which is penetrated through and through by science and which is both whole and real.  We cannot turn it into a game simply by taking sides.”

-Jacob Bronowski

“A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward.”

-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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Posted: 23 July 2012 06:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Jeff M - 23 July 2012 06:05 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 08:21 PM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

You are right, I would not.  Of course, killing baby’s is a measurably bad outcome in its self, so your premise has no legs. smile

Then either you lack the courage of your convictions or yours is a position of faith.

 Signature 

Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

Kissing Hank’s Ass
The Way of the Mister, Vol. 1: Reparative Therapy

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Posted: 23 July 2012 07:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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GAD - 23 July 2012 06:51 PM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 06:05 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 08:21 PM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

You are right, I would not.  Of course, killing baby’s is a measurably bad outcome in its self, so your premise has no legs. smile

Then either you lack the courage of your convictions or yours is a position of faith.

Please explain.

 Signature 

“Dream or nightmare, we have to live our experience as it is, and we have to live it awake.  We live in a world which is penetrated through and through by science and which is both whole and real.  We cannot turn it into a game simply by taking sides.”

-Jacob Bronowski

“A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward.”

-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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Posted: 24 July 2012 08:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Jeff M - 23 July 2012 07:34 PM
GAD - 23 July 2012 06:51 PM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 06:05 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 08:21 PM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

You are right, I would not.  Of course, killing baby’s is a measurably bad outcome in its self, so your premise has no legs. smile

Then either you lack the courage of your convictions or yours is a position of faith.

Please explain.

You believe your path leads to a better world but won’t follow it if it leads to something you don’t like. The only other option then is faith, faith that it will lead to a better world and it will be one you like.

 Signature 

Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

Kissing Hank’s Ass
The Way of the Mister, Vol. 1: Reparative Therapy

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Posted: 24 July 2012 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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GAD - 24 July 2012 08:27 AM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 07:34 PM
GAD - 23 July 2012 06:51 PM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 06:05 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 08:21 PM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

You are right, I would not.  Of course, killing baby’s is a measurably bad outcome in its self, so your premise has no legs. smile

Then either you lack the courage of your convictions or yours is a position of faith.

Please explain.

You believe your path leads to a better world but won’t follow it if it leads to something you don’t like. The only other option then is faith, faith that it will lead to a better world and it will be one you like.

More accurately, I believe Parfit’s theories described in “On What Matters” could lead to better outcomes, and your projected outcome of such theories leading to the killing baby’s is terribly misinformed.

 Signature 

“Dream or nightmare, we have to live our experience as it is, and we have to live it awake.  We live in a world which is penetrated through and through by science and which is both whole and real.  We cannot turn it into a game simply by taking sides.”

-Jacob Bronowski

“A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward.”

-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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Posted: 24 July 2012 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Jeff M - 24 July 2012 07:27 PM
GAD - 24 July 2012 08:27 AM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 07:34 PM
GAD - 23 July 2012 06:51 PM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 06:05 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 08:21 PM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

You are right, I would not.  Of course, killing baby’s is a measurably bad outcome in its self, so your premise has no legs. smile

Then either you lack the courage of your convictions or yours is a position of faith.

Please explain.

You believe your path leads to a better world but won’t follow it if it leads to something you don’t like. The only other option then is faith, faith that it will lead to a better world and it will be one you like.

More accurately, I believe Parfit’s theories described in “On What Matters” could lead to better outcomes, and your projected outcome of such theories leading to the killing baby’s is terribly misinformed.

That’s because you have already subjectively presupposed that your objective theories will lead to your preferred conclusions.

 Signature 

Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

Kissing Hank’s Ass
The Way of the Mister, Vol. 1: Reparative Therapy

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Posted: 24 July 2012 07:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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GAD - 24 July 2012 07:51 PM
Jeff M - 24 July 2012 07:27 PM
GAD - 24 July 2012 08:27 AM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 07:34 PM
GAD - 23 July 2012 06:51 PM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 06:05 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 08:21 PM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

You are right, I would not.  Of course, killing baby’s is a measurably bad outcome in its self, so your premise has no legs. smile

Then either you lack the courage of your convictions or yours is a position of faith.

Please explain.

You believe your path leads to a better world but won’t follow it if it leads to something you don’t like. The only other option then is faith, faith that it will lead to a better world and it will be one you like.

More accurately, I believe Parfit’s theories described in “On What Matters” could lead to better outcomes, and your projected outcome of such theories leading to the killing baby’s is terribly misinformed.

That’s because you have already subjectively presupposed that your objective theories will lead to your preferred conclusions.

Shall we follow the logic using Parfait’s theories?  Maybe start with the Kantian principals in his tipple theory?

 Signature 

“Dream or nightmare, we have to live our experience as it is, and we have to live it awake.  We live in a world which is penetrated through and through by science and which is both whole and real.  We cannot turn it into a game simply by taking sides.”

-Jacob Bronowski

“A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward.”

-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

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Posted: 24 July 2012 08:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Jeff M - 24 July 2012 07:56 PM
GAD - 24 July 2012 07:51 PM
Jeff M - 24 July 2012 07:27 PM
GAD - 24 July 2012 08:27 AM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 07:34 PM
GAD - 23 July 2012 06:51 PM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 06:05 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 08:21 PM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

You are right, I would not.  Of course, killing baby’s is a measurably bad outcome in its self, so your premise has no legs. smile

Then either you lack the courage of your convictions or yours is a position of faith.

Please explain.

You believe your path leads to a better world but won’t follow it if it leads to something you don’t like. The only other option then is faith, faith that it will lead to a better world and it will be one you like.

More accurately, I believe Parfit’s theories described in “On What Matters” could lead to better outcomes, and your projected outcome of such theories leading to the killing baby’s is terribly misinformed.

That’s because you have already subjectively presupposed that your objective theories will lead to your preferred conclusions.

Shall we follow the logic using Parfait’s theories?  Maybe start with the Kantian principals in his tipple theory?

I’m not really into leather and tipple chains but if you go slow and use small words with lots of lubrication I’ll see how much I can take. You should probably get us our own room so we don’t ruin Lillian’s carpet.

 Signature 

Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

Kissing Hank’s Ass
The Way of the Mister, Vol. 1: Reparative Therapy

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Posted: 24 July 2012 08:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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GAD - 24 July 2012 08:11 PM
Jeff M - 24 July 2012 07:56 PM
GAD - 24 July 2012 07:51 PM
Jeff M - 24 July 2012 07:27 PM
GAD - 24 July 2012 08:27 AM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 07:34 PM
GAD - 23 July 2012 06:51 PM
Jeff M - 23 July 2012 06:05 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 08:21 PM
Jeff M - 22 July 2012 07:33 PM
GAD - 22 July 2012 09:32 AM

Hello and welcome. There is no objective morality therefore moral relativism is all there is, like it or not.

I disagree that there is “no objective morality”, in the sense that we can compare moral choices and measure outcomes to increasing degrees of accuracy as our methods evolve. 

And if that lead to every child born with a defect being put down for the greater good would you accept that? No, no you wouldn’t, you would say that we hadn’t reached the right “outcome”. And it will never be the right outcome until it meets “your” idea of the right outcome.

You are right, I would not.  Of course, killing baby’s is a measurably bad outcome in its self, so your premise has no legs. smile

Then either you lack the courage of your convictions or yours is a position of faith.

Please explain.

You believe your path leads to a better world but won’t follow it if it leads to something you don’t like. The only other option then is faith, faith that it will lead to a better world and it will be one you like.

More accurately, I believe Parfit’s theories described in “On What Matters” could lead to better outcomes, and your projected outcome of such theories leading to the killing baby’s is terribly misinformed.

That’s because you have already subjectively presupposed that your objective theories will lead to your preferred conclusions.

Shall we follow the logic using Parfait’s theories?  Maybe start with the Kantian principals in his tipple theory?

I’m not really into leather and tipple chains but if you go slow and use small words with lots of lubrication I’ll see how much I can take. You should probably get us our own room so we don’t ruin Lillian’s carpet.

Oh man, now you ruined it for me.

 Signature 

“Dream or nightmare, we have to live our experience as it is, and we have to live it awake.  We live in a world which is penetrated through and through by science and which is both whole and real.  We cannot turn it into a game simply by taking sides.”

-Jacob Bronowski

“A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward.”

-Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Profile
 
 
   
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