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Now I’m an older man, 74, not stupid but no genius, with a doctorate degree somewhat time worn, and a half-century of practice as a clinical psychologist. Not that it matters, but I’m “straight,” and probably more liberal than most, but not committed to any particular political ideology more than individual freedoms, etc., as articulated by the Constitution. We’re reasonably “well-off” financially, retired and in what general health that might be expected given our ages; that is, our death date is not known, but within probably a decade. I read and scan the news every day, and am familiar with most events. Also, not that it matters to me at all, I’m a “secular humanist,” or that’s as near as I can get, and I’ve zero belief in some all-seeing god supervising the trials and travails of the human race.
My OP here is that I’m predicting that world’s general economic health is deteriorating, with some occasional up-beats as measured in the DOW, but I think it is declining. It may be fast or delayed by a few years, but it is I think downhill. And no one, no political ideology, is the “cause.” Just too many people with too few resources to sustain the population, but that’s just my vague thought. And I do not give a shit, to be blunt, about atheism/theism, that to me is just a sometimes entertaining debate. Just to be clear, the “rights” claimed by any group, be they gay people, atheists, theists, etc., are worth respect, but they are irrelevant if in fact we as a world population of human beings, are facing massive economic decline. And, also, no, I do not think that decline, if true, is due to the greed of “conservatives” or the fiscal stupidity of “liberals.” Both add to but do not sufficiently cause what I’m fearing. General human dispositions to ignore what seems(?) to me to be happening, may be. Well, maybe not “stupidity,“ but lack of consideration of the basic causes of such a decline. Damn, that last sentence implies I know of such basic causes. Well, maybe I don’t, but to me they’re a simple equation of Malthusian “supply and demand.” We, as a species, just require more than we’re able to exploit, distribute and use.
Except as an abstract issue, hopefully, that dire prediction will not shorten my life. But it may well shorten or degrade that of some here. And I’ve no recommendations to address such a prediction, apart from a devoted effort to examine the issues and deal with what can be done. I’ve personally no great optimism that will occur, hope I’m wrong. There’re just too many uneducated, selfish, ideologically committed people to do that. Capitalism may be a useful ideology,
“socialism,” is not. “Praying to god” is akin to masturbation, with the same progeny.
True, “life’s a bitch, and then you die.” My life has not been bad, quite good in most respects, in my opinion, but what, if anything, can this forum offer as alternatives my dire predictions?
You’re wanting to be cheered up again.
I think that, contrary to what you are saying, life is actually better for a lot of people than it was in the past. No, not people in war-torn sections of Africa. No, not young slave prostitutes in Asia. But most people, due to our ability to ship food and goods around where it is needed.
Back in the days of the Anasazi in the US Southwest, when the climate dried out and they used up all the available resources, the hungry survivors straggled south on foot in search of more fertile lands. A lot just died, I’m sure. And native Alaskans starved and froze during harsh winters. And tsunami victims remained stranded in the wreckage of their villages.
So actually, we are able to help each other so much more now, and we do.
What is happening is that people are realizing that they can have a better standard of life with smaller families. And info on birth control is becoming widely available. World population growth is leveling off. I think total calamity can be avoided, though there will still be many bad times.
I think the US will decline in power and standard of living. But if we can shift our focus from buying stuff to appreciating the simple things—our families, friends, health, fruits of our labors, natural environment—and if we can become more self-reliant, maybe down-sizing won’t be so terrible.
You’re wanting to be cheered up again.
I think that, contrary to what you are saying, life is actually better for a lot of people than it was in the past. No, not people in war-torn sections of Africa. No, not young slave prostitutes in Asia. But most people, due to our ability to ship food and goods around where it is needed.
Back in the days of the Anasazi in the US Southwest, when the climate dried out and they used up all the available resources, the hungry survivors straggled south on foot in search of more fertile lands. A lot just died, I’m sure. And native Alaskans starved and froze during harsh winters. And tsunami victims remained stranded in the wreckage of their villages.
So actually, we are able to help each other so much more now, and we do.
What is happening is that people are realizing that they can have a better standard of life with smaller families. And info on birth control is becoming widely available. World population growth is leveling off. I think total calamity can be avoided, though there will still be many bad times.
I think the US will decline in power and standard of living. But if we can shift our focus from buying stuff to appreciating the simple things—our families, friends, health, fruits of our labors, natural environment—and if we can become more self-reliant, maybe down-sizing won’t be so terrible.
Actually agree we’re better off now, on average, than for hundreds of years. My gloomy predictions may well be wrong and am open to that. But, yes, there’s always a “but,” we have billions more aging people on the planet with diminishing basic resources. In the U.S. we’ve not had any extreme issues, but in large parts of the world that is not the case. The amount of food and aide wealthier countries are distributing is decreasing, both due to the expense and due to in places the violence. I’ve no specific time-line or prediction, more of a trend. World population was expected to peak around 2030, and then begin a sharp decline, but that is just a prediction that can change. Most western countries are decreasing (See Japan as an example), while aging with fecundity rate of something like 1.40 to 1.60, when 2.11 is replacement. Don’t know re mid-east.
You’re wanting to be cheered up again.
I think that, contrary to what you are saying, life is actually better for a lot of people than it was in the past. No, not people in war-torn sections of Africa. No, not young slave prostitutes in Asia. But most people, due to our ability to ship food and goods around where it is needed.
Back in the days of the Anasazi in the US Southwest, when the climate dried out and they used up all the available resources, the hungry survivors straggled south on foot in search of more fertile lands. A lot just died, I’m sure. And native Alaskans starved and froze during harsh winters. And tsunami victims remained stranded in the wreckage of their villages.
So actually, we are able to help each other so much more now, and we do.
What is happening is that people are realizing that they can have a better standard of life with smaller families. And info on birth control is becoming widely available. World population growth is leveling off. I think total calamity can be avoided, though there will still be many bad times.
I think the US will decline in power and standard of living. But if we can shift our focus from buying stuff to appreciating the simple things—our families, friends, health, fruits of our labors, natural environment—and if we can become more self-reliant, maybe down-sizing won’t be so terrible.
Actually agree we’re better off now, on average, than for hundreds of years. My gloomy predictions may well be wrong and am open to that. But, yes, there’s always a “but,” we have billions more aging people on the planet with diminishing basic resources. In the U.S. we’ve not had any extreme issues, but in large parts of the world that is not the case. The amount of food and aide wealthier countries are distributing is decreasing, both due to the expense and due to in places the violence. I’ve no specific time-line or prediction, more of a trend. World population was expected to peak around 2030, and then begin a sharp decline, but that is just a prediction that can change. Most western countries are decreasing (See Japan as an example), while aging with fecundity rate of something like 1.40 to 1.60, when 2.11 is replacement. Don’t know re mid-east.
Well, obviously resources are going to have to be shifted in the West to help care for the elderly. Health care costs will need to be reigned in. I predict a total overhaul. More of the elderly will need to live with family, rather than in care facilities. Right now, I think we’ve reached one extreme of the pendulum swing for which everyone in the US expects the elderly to live separate from the younger generation. And this is really different than during most of history. Personally, I’m going to try to maintain a really good relationship with my sons and become a very very sweet old woman with a modest nest egg.
Well, obviously resources are going to have to be shifted in the West to help care for the elderly. Health care costs will need to be reigned in. I predict a total overhaul. More of the elderly will need to live with family, rather than in care facilities. Right now, I think we’ve reached one extreme of the pendulum swing for which everyone in the US expects the elderly to live separate from the younger generation. And this is really different than during most of history. Personally, I’m going to try to maintain a really good relationship with my sons and become a very very sweet old woman with a modest nest egg.
That is a huge and unappreciated problem, even in China. As the population ages they require more resources with fewer workers. Average here is about 38 and rising. Read yesterday that the median wealth of U.S. families dropped from 140 k to about 70k in the last few years (approx, a 40% drop anyway). I, unhappily, can never make sweet old man, but have a decent net egg; so they have to be nice to me not the reverse. Could not have stood my parents living with us, they keep trying to be parents; but then they went and died so not an issue. There are many more adult children staying home, mostly for economic reasons. That’s a bummer for both.
Is everything getting worse? It depends on the “thing”. Some are. Some aren’t. I think it is safe to say we are financially richer, but morally poorer these days. We expect those who are in power to lie , our contemporaries to cheat, employees to steal. It is naive to think that at least some things aren’t getting worse. Americans are more than ever suspicious of one another. Youth is contaminated by movies, video games, and television that trivializes both sex and violence. Whereas in the past, people used to look to their faiths for answers and sustain culturally, that too has been under attack. So people are desperate to find something to believe in.
Frankly, may be, there is nothing wrong with having faith! May be we are just envious of people who can just let go and totally commit. Instead many have constantly attacked, mocked “fake faith” which is easy target to justify their belief in nothingness. I think faith is a wonderful thing. If your faith enables you somehow to survive life’s shitstorms with a modicum of grace and humor, then you are truly blessed. On the other hand, if faith means to give away your hard earned money to some self appointed God’s representative to help keep him in a life style you can only dream of, then that kind of a faith is just plain stupid.
I have “faith” that things will work themselves out. I see it in play everyday. Just this morning, I witnessed the miracle of an asshole in a black Porsche that cut me off, was promptly pulled over for a cavity search by the highway patrol.
Is everything getting worse? It depends on the “thing”. Some are. Some aren’t. I think it is safe to say we are financially richer, but morally poorer these days. We expect those who are in power to lie , our contemporaries to cheat, employees to steal. It is naive to think that at least some things aren’t getting worse. Americans are more than ever suspicious of one another. Youth is contaminated by movies, video games, and television that trivializes both sex and violence. Whereas in the past, people used to look to their faiths for answers and sustain culturally, that too has been under attack. So people are desperate to find something to believe in.
Frankly, may be, there is nothing wrong with having faith! May be we are just envious of people who can just let go and totally commit. Instead many have constantly attacked, mocked “fake faith” which is easy target to justify their belief in nothingness. I think faith is a wonderful thing. If your faith enables you somehow to survive life’s shitstorms with a modicum of grace and humor, then you are truly blessed. On the other hand, if faith means to give away your hard earned money to some self appointed God’s representative to help keep him in a life style you can only dream of, then that kind of a faith is just plain stupid.
I have “faith” that things will work themselves out. I see it in play everyday. Just this morning, I witnessed the miracle of an asshole in a black Porsche that cut me off, was promptly pulled over for a cavity search by the highway patrol.
Actually, I don’t think that people lie, cheat, or steal any more than ever. Looks at the stories in the Bible. There’s nothing new under the sun in terms of human nature. I’m not generally suspicious of others, though our media certainly sensationalizes crimes. I meet nice people all the time.
According to Christian doctrine, if someone in a Porsche cuts you off, shouldn’t you back off and pray for his safety?
Shit, another brilliant post by Celal, which I read because I thought maybe he’d have something to say. Damned it, should why I put this poster on Ignore in the first place. 90 seconds wasted I’ll never get back.
Now I’m an older man, 74, not stupid but no genius, with a doctorate degree somewhat time worn, and a half-century of practice as a clinical psychologist. Not that it matters, but I’m “straight,” and probably more liberal than most, but not committed to any particular political ideology more than individual freedoms, etc., as articulated by the Constitution. We’re reasonably “well-off” financially, retired and in what general health that might be expected given our ages; that is, our death date is not known, but within probably a decade. I read and scan the news every day, and am familiar with most events. Also, not that it matters to me at all, I’m a “secular humanist,” or that’s as near as I can get, and I’ve zero belief in some all-seeing god supervising the trials and travails of the human race.
My OP here is that I’m predicting that world’s general economic health is deteriorating, with some occasional up-beats as measured in the DOW, but I think it is declining. It may be fast or delayed by a few years, but it is I think downhill. And no one, no political ideology, is the “cause.” Just too many people with too few resources to sustain the population, but that’s just my vague thought. And I do not give a shit, to be blunt, about atheism/theism, that to me is just a sometimes entertaining debate. Just to be clear, the “rights” claimed by any group, be they gay people, atheists, theists, etc., are worth respect, but they are irrelevant if in fact we as a world population of human beings, are facing massive economic decline. And, also, no, I do not think that decline, if true, is due to the greed of “conservatives” or the fiscal stupidity of “liberals.” Both add to but do not sufficiently cause what I’m fearing. General human dispositions to ignore what seems(?) to me to be happening, may be. Well, maybe not “stupidity,“ but lack of consideration of the basic causes of such a decline. Damn, that last sentence implies I know of such basic causes. Well, maybe I don’t, but to me they’re a simple equation of Malthusian “supply and demand.” We, as a species, just require more than we’re able to exploit, distribute and use.
Except as an abstract issue, hopefully, that dire prediction will not shorten my life. But it may well shorten or degrade that of some here. And I’ve no recommendations to address such a prediction, apart from a devoted effort to examine the issues and deal with what can be done. I’ve personally no great optimism that will occur, hope I’m wrong. There’re just too many uneducated, selfish, ideologically committed people to do that. Capitalism may be a useful ideology,
“socialism,” is not. “Praying to god” is akin to masturbation, with the same progeny.
True, “life’s a bitch, and then you die.” My life has not been bad, quite good in most respects, in my opinion, but what, if anything, can this forum offer as alternatives my dire predictions?
Dennis
Dennis, this post, as highlighted by your self absorbed, and selfish view points above, in which you declare that you care about nothing or anyone else. You believe in nothing. You hold nothing sacred. Your concerns only relate to you your life on this earth, your remaining days and that you, though not a genius, are smarter than most.
So I tried to help you, out of charity, cover up your pathetic post. I should have known better.
Is everything getting worse? It depends on the “thing”. Some are. Some aren’t. I think it is safe to say we are financially richer, but morally poorer these days. We expect those who are in power to lie , our contemporaries to cheat, employees to steal. It is naive to think that at least some things aren’t getting worse. Americans are more than ever suspicious of one another. Youth is contaminated by movies, video games, and television that trivializes both sex and violence. Whereas in the past, people used to look to their faiths for answers and sustain culturally, that too has been under attack. So people are desperate to find something to believe in.
Frankly, may be, there is nothing wrong with having faith! May be we are just envious of people who can just let go and totally commit. Instead many have constantly attacked, mocked “fake faith” which is easy target to justify their belief in nothingness. I think faith is a wonderful thing. If your faith enables you somehow to survive life’s shitstorms with a modicum of grace and humor, then you are truly blessed. On the other hand, if faith means to give away your hard earned money to some self appointed God’s representative to help keep him in a life style you can only dream of, then that kind of a faith is just plain stupid.
I have “faith” that things will work themselves out. I see it in play everyday. Just this morning, I witnessed the miracle of an asshole in a black Porsche that cut me off, was promptly pulled over for a cavity search by the highway patrol.
According to Christian doctrine, if someone in a Porsche cuts you off, shouldn’t you back off and pray for his safety?
Dennis, this post, as highlighted by your self absorbed, and selfish view points above, in which you declare that you care about nothing or anyone else. You believe in nothing. You hold nothing sacred. Your concerns only relate to you your life on this earth, your remaining days and that you, though not a genius, are smarter than most.
So I tried to help you, out of charity, cover up your pathetic post. I should have known better.
Never said I cared about nothing or nobody, that’s your statement, not mine. I am smarter than most, by no means all, but “most” means better than 50%.” I’ll advance you 75%, your bet now, asshole. “Asshole,” to be specific, refers to those who cannot reason beyond their own prejudices.
This is an OP re general economic decline, asshole, so try dealing with that as opposed to your anal excretions. Oh, my goodness gracious, I might have been too gross or grass.
Dennis, this post, as highlighted by your self absorbed, and selfish view points above, in which you declare that you care about nothing or anyone else. You believe in nothing. You hold nothing sacred. Your concerns only relate to you your life on this earth, your remaining days and that you, though not a genius, are smarter than most.
So I tried to help you, out of charity, cover up your pathetic post. I should have known better.
Never said I cared about nothing or nobody, that’s your statement, not mine. I am smarter than most, by no means all, but “most” means better than 50%.” I’ll advance you 75%, your bet now, asshole. “Asshole,” to be specific, refers to those who cannot reason beyond their own prejudices.
This is an OP re general economic decline, asshole, so try dealing with that as opposed to your anal excretions. Oh, my goodness gracious, I might have been too gross or grass.
Mr “I’m smarter than most people”, you meant “crass”, not “grass”.
Just too many people with too few resources to sustain the population, but that’s just my vague thought.
The economic crisis we are in now is not due to resource capacity problems. In fact, we have exactly the opposite problem. Lots of production capacity is sitting idle. The problem we have is called a “balance sheet recession.” Basically, the level of private debt had been growing throughout the past couple of decades and is what was funding most of the growth. Private debt growth is unsustainable in that eventually there comes a tipping point where the debt growth outpaces the ability to repay. Now people want to save, so you see decreased aggregate demand which causes economic retraction. You also see falling asset prices because the build up of debt had been functioning to artificially inflate prices.
You won’t see a very quick recovery, because governments (both progressive and conservative) would rather impose austerity. The thing with austerity is that we know it doesn’t work at the national level. Decreasing government expenditures and raising taxes decreases total taxes collected rather than increasing them. (The Repubs actually have the latter half of that sentence correct). From JM Keynes work following the Great Depression, we’ve known for 60 plus years that the way out of a depression is to spend counter-cyclically, not to implement harsh austerity.
I have known the above for several years, but always thought it was a catch-22 type situation. By going into debt now to help the economy recover, we would actually just be kicking the can down the road. However, over the past year or so, I’ve done a lot of reading about different economic theories. The one that makes the most sense to me (and you’ve heard me espouse it several times) is called Modern Money Theory or MMT for short. Through the study of how the financial system actually works, the discovered that currency issuing governments do not have a solvency problem. That is, they can create more money whenever they want. They don’t have to kick the can down the road. They can always service any level of debt and can spend without creating debt if they allow themselves to (It’s only because of law that the US government creates debt dollar for dollar with spending. Functionally, the really don’t need to).
Combining Keynesian economics with MMT I discovered that there actually is a solution. The problem is that people want more dollars to spend (who doesn’t right?) and they want it in the form of income, not additional debt. Amazingly, we have this entity that can literally create dollars and give them to people or make them work for it. Oh yeah, and we also have 8% of the population that would like to have a job and can’t find one. Hmm, what could we do? Well, I know what I would do.
To conclude, the problem is not a lack of real resources, it’s a lack of money. It just so happens that there exists a possibly infinite supply of money, we just won’t allow ourselves to tap into it.
Damned it, should why I put this poster on Ignore in the first place. 90 seconds wasted I’ll never get back.
I put that guy on ignore months ago, and haven’t missed a damn thing. At least Brother Mario makes sense sometimes.
I have decided to invest my one trillion dollar fortune in the infrastructure of Texas. I will educate and provide health care for all its teeming millions. I will build roads, power lines, high speed railways, desalination plants, water lines, blah, blah, blah, for my state. The rising sea levels will provide fresh water for my state and turn it into a garden, as I extract the salt from the Gulf of Mexico. Texas will become the economic heartbeat of the world. I AM ECURB!. Ooops, just got an e-mail from Rick Perry. Never mind.
I have decided to invest my one trillion dollar fortune in the infrastructure of Texas. I will educate and provide health care for all its teeming millions. I will build roads, power lines, high speed railways, desalination plants, water lines, blah, blah, blah, for my state. The rising sea levels will provide fresh water for my state and turn it into a garden, as I extract the salt from the Gulf of Mexico. Texas will become the economic heartbeat of the world. I AM ECURB!. Ooops, just got an e-mail from Rick Perry. Never mind.
Beware! The above offer comes from a Texas attorney. That should say enough.
