Sheesh, I take a weeks vacation with a lady to visit Punta Cana for some positive energy and then I return to the usual schtick.
Sara has this belief that Simone was a dreamer. Actually Simone had the power of conscious attention coupled with the capacity for detachment that makes one the opposite of a dreamer. I think that is why those like Jesus, Socrates, and Simone to a lesser extent are hard to understand since they value truth greater than security and self esteem (opinion of oneself). This is absurd for us but for those who are dedicated to truth, they are willing to drink the Hemlock regardless of how idiotic it seems to the “normal.”
I’ve read the usual denials which seems to me to demonstrate the different degrees of atheism present on this site.
Of course there is the “yo momma sucks” contingent that prides itself on denial prohibiting any meaningful dialogue. Yet there are those that seem to be more flexible.
Anyhow, Jefe seemed willing to discuss ideas as they relate to art.
For example: Would you consider the body of work by Douglas Cardinal - a current and practicing Architect to be heartless and in service of negative emotions? Are you talking about the Broadway play Cats? Are you talking about Contemporary Ballet, like that being produced by the Nederlands Dans Theatre? Are you talking about modern musical theater created by Andrew Lloyd Webber?
Further: Do you consider there to be something inherently non-valuable about engaging in whimsy (fantasy as you put it?)
If a person’s aim is to enjoy fantasy and the feeling of self importance which is the essence of negative emotion, then fine archictecture like created by Douglas Cardinal or the music from Cats is what they should enjoy.
This quality is normal for cave life that furthers self justification. the emotions they provoke are normal for this self justification
I am referring to a quality of art allowing a person to feel their insignificance from a temporary experience of a higher reality rather than our usual significance. It can be created in several ways but the easiest to describe is cosmological art where the events of one cosmos are experienced in the context of a higher cosmological perspective.
For the time being just imagine two cosmoses: the macrocosm and the microcosm. Microcosms exist as one within the larger more inclusive macrocosm
Frederic church was inspired by Alexander von Humboldt to paint the Andes. Von Humboldt was another one of these amazing people far ahead of their time who have had a greater understanding of reality. He wrote several volumes on the “Cosmos” and needed an artist capable of describing the genesis of life as it is vividly experienced in the Andes. Frederic church had the quality of mind and talent to do it. One of his most famous paintings is “The Heart of the Andes”
I’ve visited it several times and each time I am amazed how he paints each small microcosm like a bug in great detail but at the same time the Macrocosm of the world as a greater level of reality is clearly felt. This is like experiencing being in Plato’s cave and outside it vertically and simultaneously.
My favorite is Aivazovsky. Shahen Khachatrian, a leading expert on his art describes Man as often depicted as insignificant to something far greater. He wrote:
“Maybe the most alluring image of love which Nature bears is the borderline between water and dry land, where water circumscribes the earth, and the earth circumscribes the line of water. The horizon, taking off from the shore and stretching far into the distance, connects Man with the awesome endlessness of the universe, and here, right here, one acutely feels the miracle of his fleeting life.”
Watch this video. Notice that in each of these scenes, everything that is happening is occurring within a higher context expressed through the atmosphere and the sun or moon.
The point is that there is negative art based on obvious negative emotions such as anger and revenge in both visual and audio mediums. Then there is a great amount that flatters the imagination of self importance.
However, there is also this quality of art that allows the viewer to experience something not normal in daily life which is its experience within the context of a higher reality. Rather than denying something greater than ourselves, art created by those like Church and Aivazovsky awaken the viewer to this new dimension the experience which is new for many and connects the macrocosm with the microcosm.
My guess is that cosmology will play an important part with the unification of science, the God of atheism. with Man’s need to experience more than the battles of microcosms the world offers and is drawn to a higher experience of wholeness beyond the limitations of science.. Common sense says that they are complimentary. it seems the trouble is that we’ve lost so much of our willingness to experience common sense
Simone wrote that atheism can serve as a purification of the imagination of secularized religion. Yet in the process the atheist is denied the experience of the imagination they live within which denies the experience of our insignificance in contrast to human “being” potential. I believe she’s right.