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Why do some people believe in a god?
Posted: 27 February 2012 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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TheBrotherMario - 27 February 2012 09:10 AM

Something tells me the visual personage of an Answerer is quite ridiculous to behold.

Not surprising considering it’s from the twisted imagery of such a ridiculous wannabe beholder. You think that something, no doubt, is your God, but it’s you confined in the loop of thinking like a man (quite a sick one at that) who thinks he can think like other than a man.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 09:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Avogadro’s number - 27 February 2012 09:21 AM

Shit, what more is there to discuss? One either believes in the unbelievable or one doesn’t.

The discussion is how to annihilate the other side…........

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Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 09:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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George:Wrong!
3 - life can be created in the lab here: http://www.ted.com/talks/craig_venter_unveils_synthetic_life.html
5 - I’m not Nero-scientist, but you dont have to be to understand that human thought is a product of a nero-synaptic activity.
4 - you have to be an outstanding ignoramous to not know better, check chimps and Bonobos patterns of social behavior.
Main point you don’t have to rise your butt off the chair to make those points 1 through 8, though it makes me wonder if the person who made them rose his butt to study anything contrary to his position ever.
Peace,
George.

3.  That guy didn’t create life, he manipulated life.  Not until he creates the chemicals that creates DNA, then creates an environment in which cells are produced then replicate, will I be convinced that he really created life.  I’m not saying that God zapped DNA into existence, but it may be part of a trend in evolution produced by some outside intelligence.  No, before you ask, I don’t know what or who created the outside intelligence.

5. Human thought may be created by neural activity, but consciousness is something else and remains a subject of debate.

4. Pond scum becomes Shakespeare.  Doesn’t prove there is a “point” to evolution or that we are the end-product, but….wow.

Mario is annoying, often insulting, and may be delusional,  but he isn’t poorly educated.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 09:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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saralynn - 27 February 2012 09:49 AM

Mario is annoying, often insulting, and may be delusional,  but he isn’t poorly educated.

Actually he is poorly educated…......

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Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 09:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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GAD - 27 February 2012 09:53 AM
saralynn - 27 February 2012 09:49 AM

Mario is annoying, often insulting, and may be delusional,  but he isn’t poorly educated.

Actually he is poorly educated…......

Well, let’s call his education sort of selective…

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Posted: 27 February 2012 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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Dennis Campbell - 27 February 2012 09:57 AM
GAD - 27 February 2012 09:53 AM
saralynn - 27 February 2012 09:49 AM

Mario is annoying, often insulting, and may be delusional,  but he isn’t poorly educated.

Actually he is poorly educated…......

Well, let’s call his education sort of selective…

Let’s just call it what it is, poor.

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Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

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The Way of the Mister, Vol. 1: Reparative Therapy

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Posted: 27 February 2012 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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GAD - 27 February 2012 09:45 AM
Avogadro’s number - 27 February 2012 09:21 AM

Shit, what more is there to discuss? One either believes in the unbelievable or one doesn’t.

The discussion is how to annihilate the other side…........


I think that’s unlikely to happen. As long as there are people who, for whatever reason, can’t deal with the rigors of life; there will be someone selling and someone buying unfounded Axioms of Everything. As long as someone needs to feel that God annointed their heiney with oil and tells them it’s special, better and different than everyone else’s, belief will continue. I think it’s just an emotional thing for some people and there is no desire on their part to consider it in any other manner.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 10:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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saralynn - 27 February 2012 09:49 AM

3.  That guy didn’t create life, he manipulated life.  Not until he creates the chemicals that creates DNA, then creates an environment in which cells are produced then replicate, will I be convinced that he really created life.  I’m not saying that God zapped DNA into existence, but it may be part of a trend in evolution produced by some outside intelligence.  No, before you ask, I don’t know what or who created the outside intelligence.

That is exactly how failed logic works.
I know some probably will be satisfied by your comment and not watch the clip itself. After all it’s easier to construct your opinions and beliefs on someone else’s comments rather then investigate the evidence. I have to call you out on that.

The guys opening statement:
“We are here today to announce the first synthetic cell”
then he goes on:
“Cell made by, starting with a digital code in the computer, building a chromosome from 4 bottles of chemicals assembling the chromosome in yeast,  transplanting it into a recipient bacterial cell and transforming that cell into a new bacterial species”.

Now you say - “He didn’t create life, he manipulated life”, do you realize how arrogant your statement is?
Now you call that nutt job - BM, an educated person, just because of his exercises in linguistics and manipulating Wikipedia texts like a spam-bot just to suit his worldview? Is that your measure of education? - I’m a programmer and I’ve seen, and made, spam-bot-programs much more educated then he.
Peace,
George.

[ Edited: 27 February 2012 10:31 AM by Volted ]
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Posted: 27 February 2012 10:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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GAD: The discussion is how to annihilate the other side…........

What?  You have some kind of God complex?

The other side probably wants to annihilate you, so if you both succeed, then I’ll be adrift in the world without a Forum.  Who wants to chat with a bunch of indecisive people like myself?  Conversations would be necessarily brief. ” I don’t know…do you?”  “No, I don’t know either.” “Do you want to talk about it?” I don’t know, what do you think?”  “Well, there are reasons why we should talk about it and reasons why we shouldn’t talk about it…I can’t make up my mind.”  “Me either.” “Bye” “Bye”.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 10:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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Since you (sort of) asked, here’s my “education”, in descending order of importance:

Master of Arts in English (Professional Writing) - graduated magna cum laude in two years;

Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy -  graduated magna cum laude in three years;

5 years in a monastery - spent first two years in contemplation, last three years in school;

numerous direct experiences of God - experienced last one about 30 years ago.

Your turn.

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What this country needs is a man who knows God other than by hearsay. Thomas Carlyle

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Posted: 27 February 2012 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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George: That is exactly how failed logic works.
I know some probably will be satisfied by your comment and not watch the clip itself. After all it’s easier to construct your opinions and beliefs on someone else’s comments rather then investigate the evidence. I have to call you out on that.

I listened to the first half, then read the comments, and agreed with some of them.  Unless he said something radically different in the second half, I thought I understood the gist of it.

The guys opening statement:
“We are here today to announce the first synthetic cell”
then he goes on:
“Cell made by, starting with a digital code in the computer, building a chromosome from 4 bottles of chemicals assembling the chromosome in yeast,  transplanting it into a recipient bacterial cell and transforming that cell into a new bacterial species”.

I didn’t say what he did wasn’t pretty incredible, I just said he didn’t create life.  Maybe I should go back and listen to the second half.  How did he define “species”?  A brand new species?  If I had the time, I would poke around the internet and find out the definition of species. Not just the definition, which I think I know, but the implications.  Did he create a brand new subgroup of bacteria?  A bacteria with new characteristic?  .  Again, it seems to prove evolution, but not necessarily why there is evolution and if the process teleological…and who or what made the chemicals which combine to form chromosomes?  GAD is right…if my argment is flawed, it is more the God of the Gaps error, not failed logic.

But, you are right; I should go back and listen to the whole interview.  I will do it later/

Now you say - “He didn’t create life, he manipulated life”, do you realize how arrogant your statement is?

Not really.  Is it because I had an opinion without a thorough knowledge of biochemistry?  if so, you’re arrogant, too.  Actually, we then would all be arrogant except the guy’s peers. 

  Now you call that nutt job - BM, an educated person, just because of his exercises in linguistics and manipulating Wikipedia texts like a spam-bot just to suit his worldview? Is that your measure of education? - I’m a programmer and I’ve seen spam-bots programs much more educated then he.

Education has nothing to do with a person’s tendency to manipulate facts to support their worldview.  The brightest and most highly educated people do it.  Ever read The Best and the Brightest?  Anyway, an effort to be objective is a quality of temperament, rather than education.  I dare say we all, to varying degrees, do it.  Including you.  And me.  Anyone who thinks they don’t do it is probably deluded.  All we can do is try…

Peace,
George.

Peace?  Maybe you should have signed off with “Pissed” ?

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Posted: 27 February 2012 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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I can sense an opportunity here for some small increase in popcorn sales.  George and Sara, please, go for it!  I’ve some goodies I’d like to buy and could use the extra income.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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Stylo - 27 February 2012 10:12 AM
GAD - 27 February 2012 09:45 AM
Avogadro’s number - 27 February 2012 09:21 AM

Shit, what more is there to discuss? One either believes in the unbelievable or one doesn’t.

The discussion is how to annihilate the other side…........


I think that’s unlikely to happen. As long as there are people who, for whatever reason, can’t deal with the rigors of life; there will be someone selling and someone buying unfounded Axioms of Everything. As long as someone needs to feel that God annointed their heiney with oil and tells them it’s special, better and different than everyone else’s, belief will continue. I think it’s just an emotional thing for some people and there is no desire on their part to consider it in any other manner.

Nevertheless that is the discussion. Those with anointed asses vs those without. It’s Thunderdome, two views enter only one view leaves, either by death of the other, conversion or merger.

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Why is there Something instead of Nothing: No reason or ever knowable reason.

Kissing Hank’s Ass
The Way of the Mister, Vol. 1: Reparative Therapy

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Posted: 27 February 2012 11:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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saralynn - 27 February 2012 10:55 AM

But, you are right; I should go back and listen to the whole interview.

Please do.

saralynn - 27 February 2012 10:55 AM

Not really.  Is it because I had an opinion without a thorough knowledge of biochemistry?  if so, you’re arrogant, too.  Actually, we then would all be arrogant except the guy’s peers.

No, it’s because you made a factual statement, without attempting to confront the data.

saralynn - 27 February 2012 10:55 AM

Education has nothing to do with a person’s tendency to manipulate facts to support their worldview.  The brightest and most highly educated people do it.  Ever read The Best and the Brightest?  Anyway, an effort to be objective is a quality of temperament, rather than education.  I dare say we all, to varying degrees, do it.  Including you.  And me.  Anyone who thinks they don’t do it is probably deluded.  All we can do is try…

Thank you, that was exactly my point, however I didn’t call him educated ether.

saralynn - 27 February 2012 10:55 AM

Peace?  Maybe you should have signed off with “Pissed” ?

What? - not even remotely, drinking J&B, writing code, and enjoying myself.
Peace,(I mean it)
George.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 11:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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How is a “recipient bacterial cell” not already “life”?

If it is “life”, AND IT IS, then how is it “arrogant” to see this scientific process as a manipulation of “life”?

My only response to this idiotic materialistic fantasy is—Get a life…oh, wait, you did, but you did not see it as such.

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What this country needs is a man who knows God other than by hearsay. Thomas Carlyle

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Posted: 27 February 2012 12:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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GAD - 27 February 2012 11:11 AM
Stylo - 27 February 2012 10:12 AM
GAD - 27 February 2012 09:45 AM
Avogadro’s number - 27 February 2012 09:21 AM

Shit, what more is there to discuss? One either believes in the unbelievable or one doesn’t.

The discussion is how to annihilate the other side…........


I think that’s unlikely to happen. As long as there are people who, for whatever reason, can’t deal with the rigors of life; there will be someone selling and someone buying unfounded Axioms of Everything. As long as someone needs to feel that God annointed their heiney with oil and tells them it’s special, better and different than everyone else’s, belief will continue. I think it’s just an emotional thing for some people and there is no desire on their part to consider it in any other manner.

Nevertheless that is the discussion. Those with anointed asses vs those without. It’s Thunderdome, two views enter only one view leaves, either by death of the other, conversion or merger.

Agreed. Now with awesome mental picture, thanks.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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GAD - 27 February 2012 09:45 AM
Avogadro’s number - 27 February 2012 09:21 AM

Shit, what more is there to discuss? One either believes in the unbelievable or one doesn’t.

The discussion is how to annihilate the other side…........

Put us all in a room together, stir, and let simmer for 45 minutes.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 01:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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Ecurb Noselrub - 27 February 2012 01:04 PM
GAD - 27 February 2012 09:45 AM
Avogadro’s number - 27 February 2012 09:21 AM

Shit, what more is there to discuss? One either believes in the unbelievable or one doesn’t.

The discussion is how to annihilate the other side…........

Put us all in a room together, stir, and let simmer for 45 minutes.

Only if you’re buying the first round!

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Posted: 27 February 2012 01:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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TheBrotherMario - 27 February 2012 10:44 AM

Since you (sort of) asked, here’s my “education”, in descending order of importance:

Master of Arts in English (Professional Writing) - graduated magna cum laude in two years;

Bachelor of Arts in Philosophy -  graduated magna cum laude in three years;

5 years in a monastery - spent first two years in contemplation, last three years in school;

numerous direct experiences of God - experienced last one about 30 years ago.

Your turn.

You were asked about your education so I have no problem with you providing it. However, education very rarely is the proximate cause of improved overall cognition. More often than not it actually strengthens ignorance. After all, advanced degrees only improve very precise cognitions as exhibited by an increased ability to think and speak about specific, yet highly limited topics. If your education is inherently flawed (theological studies, etc), the effects may be iatrogenic.

How many politicians, attorneys, and businessmen with high profile educations still exhibit very ignorant behavior and views? A lot. The direct correlation between atheism and advanced education needs to be controlled for specific overall cognitively improvement degrees (clinical social work, psychology, certain sciences and medicine etc) and people with biological talent.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 01:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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Job,

Nicely put.

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Religion is good for one thing: making you feel better while someone else rules you.  Religion is more a reflection than a cause of conflicts. The causes lie in conflicting cultural mores and traits.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 01:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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Also: Ma/jd/phd tier 1 top 5 percent, but the best education I received is through conversations with enlightened, empathetic people; including attempting to comprehend posts on this site.

It’s all about “informal” education.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 02:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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Dennis Campbell - 27 February 2012 01:51 PM

Job,

Nicely put.

Thanks, buddy. That is, if you were addressing me. If not, oops.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 02:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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jobyrne8989 - 27 February 2012 01:59 PM

Also: Ma/jd/phd tier 1 top 5 percent, but the best education I received is through conversations with enlightened, empathetic people; including attempting to comprehend posts on this site.

It’s all about “informal” education.

Yea, well, actually earning a living in a profession does tend to mature someone.  Not always in a pleasant manner.  Agree that some posts here can be perplexing.  Many have a history, suggest you scan some of them for a better idea.  Best education I had was actually practicing my profession for many years, not by any means a huge load of fun, but quite enlightening.  Not done yet, but expect, drat it, will never have final answers.

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Religion is good for one thing: making you feel better while someone else rules you.  Religion is more a reflection than a cause of conflicts. The causes lie in conflicting cultural mores and traits.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 02:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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jobyrne8989 - 27 February 2012 02:02 PM
Dennis Campbell - 27 February 2012 01:51 PM

Job,

Nicely put.

Thanks, buddy. That is, if you were addressing me. If not, oops.

Was. We tend to shorten long screen names.  Mine had been shortened to “idiot” etc a few times, but those of course I ignored.  BTW, my screen name is actually my name.  So far, no homicidal people have called. Must be because I actually live on a ice floe in Alaska, but don’t tell anyone.

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Religion is good for one thing: making you feel better while someone else rules you.  Religion is more a reflection than a cause of conflicts. The causes lie in conflicting cultural mores and traits.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 02:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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Dennis Campbell - 27 February 2012 02:05 PM
jobyrne8989 - 27 February 2012 01:59 PM

Also: Ma/jd/phd tier 1 top 5 percent, but the best education I received is through conversations with enlightened, empathetic people; including attempting to comprehend posts on this site.

It’s all about “informal” education.

Yea, well, actually earning a living in a profession does tend to mature someone.  Not always in a pleasant manner.  Agree that some posts here can be perplexing.  Many have a history, suggest you scan some of them for a better idea.  Best education I had was actually practicing my profession for many years, not by any means a huge load of fun, but quite enlightening.  Not done yet, but expect, drat it, will never have final answers.

I actually do envy you in that regard, since psychology used to be my obsession for some time , I really liked the idea of science of human behavior.
It’s only most interesting books on Psychology were in English and my English was really bad, back then. Today when i’m finally able to read those I have very little free time.
Peace,
George.

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