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Spare the rod, spoil the child? Nope, proven wrong.
A new analysis of two decades of research on the long-term effects of physical punishment in children concludes that spanking doesn’t work and can actually wreak havoc on kids’ long-term development, according to an article published Monday in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.
I wouldn’t argue with the research. I think violence by parents or others in charge of kids just teaches kids that violence is the way to resolve probelms and get others to do as you demand. It demonstrates a lack of self-control by the perpetrator and an inability to think of more effective and less destructive ways of teaching kids. I think it’s totally unnecessary.
The beatings I got never caused any change in me except an increase in resentment at what I perceived to be injustice. I would get a beating by adults without warning and then be told, ‘You know what that was for, don’t you.’ No chance to argue my case. In the boys home where I was a ward of the state for some months there would often be nothing said at all. Just a smack to the head that left you seeing stars and fuming with hatred. This is no way to treat kids. Or anyone for that matter.
I would think most of us here were spanked or worse. Not sure if it’s impact on me personally was that bad. This article seems to say so.
I tended to use discipline more in degrees, I rarely had to raise my voice with my own kids, so when I did or got really pissed off, they would know.
I’m with you. My dad had the “dad look.” If that popped up, we knew we’d better knock off whatever we were doing immediately. I’ve always viewed spanking as a retributive punishment, rather than a disciplinary action. My children engage in behavior(s) that I find unacceptable, or that they “know better,” or what have you. Obviously, those behaviors change as they age. Spanking my 13 year-old son for getting in trouble for talking in class (even if it’s the third time this quarter) would be like using a hammer for a spoon. My goal in disciplining them is to modify their behavior, not “punish” them. Maybe that’s a silly distinction, I don’t know. I do know that my wife and I have seen positive effects on our children through a balance of continual positive reinforcement and enforcement of discipline necessary to acheive acceptable behavior.
Not only that, but it would seem incredibly hypocritical of me to tell my children that violence is not an acceptable method of problem-solving or expressing frustration, anger, etc., and then…hit them.
Exactly, Stylo. Teaching kids that you can solve problems though violence is precisely what we shouldn’t be teaching them. I know I would have reacted much more positively if adults had come to me and said, “Rob, I don’t want you to behave like that because…” I mean, hell, even kids can reason. Beating them up is not a good way to make a kid see reason. It’s a good way to make kids hate you. It might work short term to stop a behaviour that’s happening right at the moment but it will create much bigger problems in the kid, and for the parent, later on.
Please do not get me wrong. I am not against discipline. Kids have to learn that there are consequences that follow from behaviour. But there are non-violent ways of getting that message across. Using bad behavior to stop bad behaviour is patently silly. As a teacher I learned pretty quickly that positive reinforcement is much more productive than negative reinforcement.
It’s the same with teaching dogs. As a life long owner and lover of our canine friends I have learned that beating dogs up is no way to get them to learn. Sure, you can cower them and break their spirit but a broken dog is not a whole dog able to enjoy its life to the full and react positively to people and give its owner the greatest love it is in the dogs nature to give. Like religion, violence poisons everything.
I’m not saying that sometimes, as a last resort, when we are confronted with violence we should just lie down and take it. Absolutely not. I’m the first to say that when someone is deternmined to do you damage you should get in first. But that is another question entirely. There is no reason or need to beat up kids as a form of discipline. What kids need most of all is clear boundaries, consistency by adults in maintaining those boundaries so the kids know where they stand, and positive reinforcement.
My parents sometimes used the threat of physical punishment, with only the rare/minimal application—it was almost all about the lead-in. By the time the “spanking” happened we’d gone over what was going to happen and why, had a given period of time to think about it, and the anticipation, as clinical as it was, was also a powerful teacher, far more so than being spanked and having it over and done. Besides, the actual spanking part was half-arsed at most, so the whole schtick stopped working after probably ... dunno, 8 or 10 or so I guess—once we figured out there wasn’t really much to anticipate (they didn’t use corporal punishment when we were too young to really do the whole lead-in thing). I expect Mom & Dad heard my sister and I talking about how un-traumatic the actual event really was (helping each other defeat anxiety), and they realized the technique was no longer useful. Then we were just sent to our rooms or restricted in some specific way(s) for whatever we’d done. I remember talking about it with my dad once I was all dun full growed, and he said he had a hard time gauging how hard to smack us, because when we were little we were obviously reacting to the situation rather than the actual impact. He’d tried barely smacking us at all and got the same result. Generally though, it was hard enough to know you’d been smacked, but that was about it. The spanking was only to reinforce the lead-in—to create the anxiety that made us invest in the process.
Yeah, it’s a fine line Skep. Your folks obviously thought a lot about it and didn’t use spanking as some sort of panacea. They were not really into beating you up. They were intelligent enough and loved you too much to do something as dumb as that. I think once parents start to use violence as the primary form of control they have really dropped the ball. It’s a cop out - one that will yield poor results for the kid and the parent.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 08 February 2012 07:52 AM
Yeah, it’s a fine line Skep. Your folks obviously thought a lot about it and didn’t use spanking as some sort of panacea. They were not really into beating you up. They were intelligent enough and loved you too much to do something as dumb as that. I think once parents start to use violence as the primary form of control they have really dropped the ball. It’s a cop out - one that will yield poor results for the kid and the parent.
Maybe now. But then it was definitely the norm to spank—part of our socialization. In any case I wouldn’t attach parental love or intellect to seeing through socialization. That’s a pretty rare trait. My dad had it far more than most, but he was still a product of his socialization. He was just more aware of it than probably 99+% of the planet, and even though he was aware of it he didn’t just jettison a lot of the problematic crap. He thought the church was the place to raise a family because that’s where you find the quality people, for example. I have my doubts, now, that he really bought into the whole thing—at least not wholeheartedly, if pressed (I suspect), but he still bought into the culture. I would really be very hard to overestimate the power of socialization on us, I think.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 08 February 2012 01:28 AM
. . .
The beatings I got never caused any change in me except an increase in resentment at what I perceived to be injustice. I would get a beating by adults without warning and then be told, ‘You know what that was for, don’t you.’ No chance to argue my case. In the boys home where I was a ward of the state for some months there would often be nothing said at all. Just a smack to the head that left you seeing stars and fuming with hatred. This is no way to treat kids. Or anyone for that matter.
Sorry to hear that, Rob. Progress in areas of modifying a child’s behavior have become so effective and available that spanking now, at least where I live, is not tolerated. It was almost made illegal a year or two ago in California, and it has been illegal to spank any wards of the state for more than a decade now. I have no idea how other states handle it, but they need to get with the program if they continue to allow spanking and any other form of physically violent reaction. Martin’s correct—a very stern voice especially if used only rarely, accomplishes much more than hitting a child and is of course much healthier for the child both psychologically and physically.
SKEP: Maybe now. But then it was definitely the norm to spank—part of our socialization. In any case I wouldn’t attach parental love or intellect to seeing through socialization. That’s a pretty rare trait. My dad had it far more than most, but he was still a product of his socialization. He was just more aware of it than probably 99+% of the planet, and even though he was aware of it he didn’t just jettison a lot of the problematic crap. He thought the church was the place to raise a family because that’s where you find the quality people, for example. I have my doubts, now, that he really bought into the whole thing—at least not wholeheartedly, if pressed (I suspect), but he still bought into the culture. I would really be very hard to overestimate the power of socialization on us, I think.
That’s obviously (to me) true. As you say, your dad was unusual in that respect. In those days the culture was one of spanking or worse in many families. I think that in general we could say that families tend to breed similar families. Violence, poverty, crime go together and reinforce each other and are perpetuated memetically through the generations.
A kid that has learned (been taught) that violence is the way to make other people do what you want is likely not to have a successful life and will quite likely pass the dysfunction he/she learned onto his/her kids.
Some parents think about what they are doing to their kids. Others just breed.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 08 February 2012 01:28 AM
. . .
The beatings I got never caused any change in me except an increase in resentment at what I perceived to be injustice. I would get a beating by adults without warning and then be told, ‘You know what that was for, don’t you.’ No chance to argue my case. In the boys home where I was a ward of the state for some months there would often be nothing said at all. Just a smack to the head that left you seeing stars and fuming with hatred. This is no way to treat kids. Or anyone for that matter.
Sorry to hear that, Rob. Progress in areas of modifying a child’s behavior have become so effective and available that spanking now, at least where I live, is not tolerated. It was almost made illegal a year or two ago in California, and it has been illegal to spank any wards of the state for more than a decade now. I have no idea how other states handle it, but they need to get with the program if they continue to allow spanking and any other form of physically violent reaction. Martin’s correct—a very stern voice especially if used only rarely, accomplishes much more than hitting a child and is of course much healthier for the child both psychologically and physically.
That’s right, NV. There’s never a reason, IMO, to beat up on someone smaller than yourself. In Australia, corporal punisjhment in scholos is now illegal and parents are also very limited in that respect. As a nurse, all too often I saw kids brought in with, say, a broken arm, but also with old, yellowing bruises that, according to the parents, were the result of ‘accidently falling down the stairs’. Far to many kids are still killed by their parents.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 08 February 2012 07:01 AM
Exactly, Stylo. Teaching kids that you can solve problems though violence is precisely what we shouldn’t be teaching them. I know I would have reacted much more positively if adults had come to me and said, “Rob, I don’t want you to behave like that because…” I mean, hell, even kids can reason. Beating them up is not a good way to make a kid see reason. It’s a good way to make kids hate you. It might work short term to stop a behaviour that’s happening right at the moment but it will create much bigger problems in the kid, and for the parent, later on.
Please do not get me wrong. I am not against discipline. Kids have to learn that there are consequences that follow from behaviour. But there are non-violent ways of getting that message across. Using bad behavior to stop bad behaviour is patently silly. As a teacher I learned pretty quickly that positive reinforcement is much more productive than negative reinforcement.
There’s almost a swing in the other way now, at least here in America…like…no discipline. I can’t say how many times we’re out to dinner and ever my kids comment on how poorly behaved other children are. This notion of parent’s being their children’s “BFF’s” and whatnot is completely strange. I’m not a psychologist, but I can imagine that would be a really fun study to undertake to determine WHY that’s happening.
As for this:
I’m not saying that sometimes, as a last resort, when we are confronted with violence we should just lie down and take it. Absolutely not. I’m the first to say that when someone is deternmined to do you damage you should get in first.
Self-defense is entirely another discussion. From my POV, it should be a requirement of every citizen. Which may be a bit absurd, but, it is what it is.
My parents never struck me. I got paddled twice in school, once in 2nd grade, once in 5th (damn it hurt). I spanked my daughter on her bottom once when she was little and immediately regretted it. I used to hear my black friend across the street howl at the top of his lungs when his grandmother took the switch to him, scared the hell out of me and I felt so sorry for him.
I see two extremes, I have a colleague who refuses to check her 7yr old daughter in any way, she won’t send her to her room, or stop her doing what she wants, her daughter walks all over her and screams and throws tantrums regularly. I can see that the lack of structure and boundaries in her life cause her great harm, she needs boundaries to feel cared for and loved I believe.
I also see parents in my street who scream and belittle their kids openly in public, there is no moderation in their tone or force, the children begin to see it as normal and after time the screaming seems to have little or no effect. I assume they would have to resort to more physical discipline to get a reaction from them.
Like most things in life there are so many wrong ways to do things.
