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Hi, does any one know if there’s any evidence to suggest that the story of creation along with many other myths was stolen from Babylonians by early Hebrews?
Peace,
George.
From what I remember, the Babylonian creation story has much more about the gods and their interplay, they are not all powerful and neither good nor bad, it explains more their mythology.
The Genesis story gives none of that description of where and how god was made or came to be, the Bible god just “is” and appears all powerful.
I believe the Babylonian story was found recorded on seven clay tablets.
Many other myths are universal and derived from our natural world as it is, myths describing floods and such.
I recall it was Carl Sagan I might be wrong, talking about ancient Babylonian picture of the world, where there was a dome of water above the sky (I guess an attempt to explain rain and floods) and then how this idea was borrowed by ancient Hebrews for their creation story where the dome of water above the sky mentioned both in the creation and Noah’s flood story. Although I’m inclined to trust Sagan’s account, and it sounds logically appealing I really never came across any historical evidence for this proposition.
Peace,
George.
Creation myths are a dime a dozen. The Jews were just another tribe of people living among many other tribes that happened to keep their traditions alive, probably with the help of Christian Europe keeping the story going.
There is plenty of discussion comparing and contrasting the Genesis creation stories with others from the same root culture.
By the way, “stolen” is an unnecessarily pejorative term in this context. We’re talking about times when only a tiny minority of people were literate, and where the stories were transmitted orally for perhaps thousands of years before writing was invented.
The first creation story was written by Achmad from Mesopotamia. It was copied and somewhat edited by Shalman from Ashur. This was copied and somewhat edited by Imhotep from Lower Egypt. This was copied and somewhat edited by the great Hittite scholar Baal’napor from Bogaskoy. This was copied and somewhat edited by Cyrus The-Not-So-Great of Persepolis. (This version was a favorite among the drunken soldiers of Alexander, who discovered one of the scrolls in the vagina of one of the women in the harem of Darius XXXIVLXFBI, and thus, upon their crossing the Indus…..) This was copied and somewhat edited by the Dravidian kings of India. In 254 B.C.E. an Indian scribe brought one of these copies to an Arab sea merchant, who brought it to Australia via the Indian Ocean and sold it to Alinga, an Aboriginal chieftain. He transversed the great Australian desert and sold it for two women to a Polynesian voyager named Alih’i, who brought it to Easter Island. Something was lost in the translation, and the Easter Islanders thought that the giants of Genesis 6 were made of rock. You can guess what that led to.
Meanwhile, another group of drunken soldiers of Alexander returned to Macedonia and brought a copy of Cyrus The-Not-So-Great’s somewhat edited creation story. This was copied and somewhat edited by Eusipides the Dickless. He was a very frustrated man, but he did manage to sell his copy to Menachem Yizack, a Jewish trader of purple who happened to be in Philippi at the time. Yizack took his copy back to Jerusalem and showed it to the Rabbis. It was such a hit that they completely revamped the Jewish history and wrote themselves into Yizack’s story.
Meanwhile, Eusipides the Dickless sold another slightly edited copy to Fraudulus Maximus of Rome, who sold a slightly edited copy to Otto the Stinky from Saxony. His heirs, many centuries later, brought this copy to England during the Anglo-Saxon invasions. William the Long-Membered, a 10th Century monk, found a copy of this manuscript in the pelvic bones of a Briton slave buried in an abbey. About the same time, some traveling Jewish merchants came along with a slightly edited copy of Yizack’s Jewish creation story. William examined the two manuscripts, and since the Jews paid him a goodly price, he adopted their version (with appropriately slight editing), and it became the accepted version of all Christendom.
All of this is found in A.A. Mills’ three-volume work, “The Confusing History of Creation: Dickless and Long-Membered”.
The first creation story was written by Achmad from Mesopotamia. It was copied and somewhat edited by Shalman from Ashur. This was copied and somewhat edited by Imhotep from Lower Egypt. This was copied and somewhat edited by the great Hittite scholar Baal’napor from Bogaskoy. This was copied and somewhat edited by Cyrus The-Not-So-Great of Persepolis. (This version was a favorite among the drunken soldiers of Alexander, who discovered one of the scrolls in the vagina of one of the women in the harem of Darius XXXIVLXFBI, and thus, upon their crossing the Indus…..) This was copied and somewhat edited by the Dravidian kings of India. In 254 B.C.E. an Indian scribe brought one of these copies to an Arab sea merchant, who brought it to Australia via the Indian Ocean and sold it to Alinga, an Aboriginal chieftain. He transversed the great Australian desert and sold it for two women to a Polynesian voyager named Alih’i, who brought it to Easter Island. Something was lost in the translation, and the Easter Islanders thought that the giants of Genesis 6 were made of rock. You can guess what that led to.
Meanwhile, another group of drunken soldiers of Alexander returned to Macedonia and brought a copy of Cyrus The-Not-So-Great’s somewhat edited creation story. This was copied and somewhat edited by Eusipides the Dickless. He was a very frustrated man, but he did manage to sell his copy to Menachem Yizack, a Jewish trader of purple who happened to be in Philippi at the time. Yizack took his copy back to Jerusalem and showed it to the Rabbis. It was such a hit that they completely revamped the Jewish history and wrote themselves into Yizack’s story.
Meanwhile, Eusipides the Dickless sold another slightly edited copy to Fraudulus Maximus of Rome, who sold a slightly edited copy to Otto the Stinky from Saxony. His heirs, many centuries later, brought this copy to England during the Anglo-Saxon invasions. William the Long-Membered, a 10th Century monk, found a copy of this manuscript in the pelvic bones of a Briton slave buried in an abbey. About the same time, some traveling Jewish merchants came along with a slightly edited copy of Yizack’s Jewish creation story. William examined the two manuscripts, and since the Jews paid him a goodly price, he adopted their version (with appropriately slight editing), and it became the accepted version of all Christendom.
All of this is found in A.A. Mills’ three-volume work, “The Confusing History of Creation: Dickless and Long-Membered”.
Quite a story, Bruce!! And funny. I especially liked the bit where “In 254 B.C.E. an Indian scribe brought one of these copies to an Arab sea merchant, who brought it to Australia via the Indian Ocean and sold it to Alinga, an Aboriginal chieftain. He transversed the great Australian desert and sold it for two women to a Polynesian voyager named Alih’i, who brought it to Easter Island. Something was lost in the translation, and the Easter Islanders thought that the giants of Genesis 6 were made of rock. You can guess what that led to”.
It’s nice to see the land of Oz getting a bit part in the saga. Did you know that the aborigines have been here for over 60,000 years? Goodness knows how far their orally transmitted creation stories go back.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 07 February 2012 12:07 AM
It’s nice to see the land of Oz getting a bit part in the saga. Did you know that the aborigines have been here for over 60,000 years? Goodness knows how far their orally transmitted creation stories go back.
I saw a program a while ago Rob tracing the DNA of earliest man from it’s roots in Africa, the DNA data when placed on the globe read like a journey, leaving Africa and following the coast through Southern India eventually finding it’s way to Australia. The Aboriginal elders whose DNA was matched to the earliest arrival from African origins did understand the data, but clung almost indignantly to their own ancient origins. The whole was a real interesting process to see.
Wish I could find it online for you to watch….
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 07 February 2012 12:07 AM
It’s nice to see the land of Oz getting a bit part in the saga. Did you know that the aborigines have been here for over 60,000 years? Goodness knows how far their orally transmitted creation stories go back.
I saw a program a while ago Rob tracing the DNA of earliest man from it’s roots in Africa, the DNA data when placed on the globe read like a journey, leaving Africa and following the coast through Southern India eventually finding it’s way to Australia. The Aboriginal elders whose DNA was matched to the earliest arrival from African origins did understand the data, but clung almost indignantly to their own ancient origins. The whole was a real interesting process to see.
Wish I could find it online for you to watch….
Yes, I think I’ve seen it, Martin. It’s amazing that the Aborigines got to Australia over 60,000 years ago but not into the Amerricas before about 18,000 years ago towards the end of the last glacial maximum. At that time sea levels were very much lower and so the aborigines could have walked most of the way to Australia through moslly tropical regions. Those in east Asia could have walked across the Baring Strait too but they would have been blocked by the huge ice cap at those northern latitudes and so couldn’t get into temperate America.
I thought it was interesting how the Aborigines, when confronted with the scientific data about their own origins, prefered to stick with their own stories. After 60,000 years their walk to Austalia would have been lost in the mists of time and the people would have made up their own stories that placed them in the land they inhabited. I guess a people’s narrative becomes sort of central to the way they understand their lives and pretty hard to give up until one becomes imbuded with the new scientific culture.
Hi, does any one know if there’s any evidence to suggest that the story of creation along with many other myths was stolen from Babylonians by early Hebrews?
Peace,
George.
Yes absolutely.
This comes up a lot so here a canned response from posts gone by:
Did god create everything?
Not in the bible. One only need to read Genesis 1:1 - 1:10 to see that there was a preexisting water universe of chaos that god created the heaven and earth within.
In the bible we live on flat disk held up by pillars, in an air bubble created by the “Firmament” to hold back the waters of the universe.
The cosmogony written is Genesis (and else where) is clearly Babylonian and taken from older myths such as the Enuma Elish and mixed with other myths of the time..
As is the “Firmament” which science has long since proven to be false, which is backed up by the Father religion (Jews) as well as it’s bastard child Christianity.
Thank you GAD, I recently asked my neighbor Rabbi just for the purposes of my own amusement did he have to say about the proposition of the Firmament, however after his long and rather boring monologue I find it hard to believe that Jews these days even believe that the bible is the word of god, something that Christians take as a fact.
but as Hitch once said “I never get tired debating religious people, you never know what they gonna say next”.
Peace,
George.
That would be our pal and friend of Reason Spencer Wells and his book and video Journey of Man.
Thanks Nhoj, that’s the guy Spencer Wells, The program is well worth watching, it does tend to balls up all those creation myths Rob, with a little bit of good science.
The first creation story was written by Achmad from Mesopotamia. It was copied and somewhat edited by Shalman from Ashur. This was copied and somewhat edited by Imhotep from Lower Egypt. This was copied and somewhat edited by the great Hittite scholar Baal’napor from Bogaskoy. This was copied and somewhat edited by Cyrus The-Not-So-Great of Persepolis. (This version was a favorite among the drunken soldiers of Alexander, who discovered one of the scrolls in the vagina of one of the women in the harem of Darius XXXIVLXFBI, and thus, upon their crossing the Indus…..) This was copied and somewhat edited by the Dravidian kings of India. In 254 B.C.E. an Indian scribe brought one of these copies to an Arab sea merchant, who brought it to Australia via the Indian Ocean and sold it to Alinga, an Aboriginal chieftain. He transversed the great Australian desert and sold it for two women to a Polynesian voyager named Alih’i, who brought it to Easter Island. Something was lost in the translation, and the Easter Islanders thought that the giants of Genesis 6 were made of rock. You can guess what that led to.
Meanwhile, another group of drunken soldiers of Alexander returned to Macedonia and brought a copy of Cyrus The-Not-So-Great’s somewhat edited creation story. This was copied and somewhat edited by Eusipides the Dickless. He was a very frustrated man, but he did manage to sell his copy to Menachem Yizack, a Jewish trader of purple who happened to be in Philippi at the time. Yizack took his copy back to Jerusalem and showed it to the Rabbis. It was such a hit that they completely revamped the Jewish history and wrote themselves into Yizack’s story.
Meanwhile, Eusipides the Dickless sold another slightly edited copy to Fraudulus Maximus of Rome, who sold a slightly edited copy to Otto the Stinky from Saxony. His heirs, many centuries later, brought this copy to England during the Anglo-Saxon invasions. William the Long-Membered, a 10th Century monk, found a copy of this manuscript in the pelvic bones of a Briton slave buried in an abbey. About the same time, some traveling Jewish merchants came along with a slightly edited copy of Yizack’s Jewish creation story. William examined the two manuscripts, and since the Jews paid him a goodly price, he adopted their version (with appropriately slight editing), and it became the accepted version of all Christendom.
All of this is found in A.A. Mills’ three-volume work, “The Confusing History of Creation: Dickless and Long-Membered”.
No shit?
I only included a summary of the story. The really fascinating part is how Achmad of Mesopotamia first came up with the tale. He lived from 2614 B.C.E. to 2550 B.C.E. His father was Sumerian and his mother was Irish. He was a writer, but was down on his luck. His agent and his publisher were demanding a book, but he was suffering from writer’s block and couldn’t deliver. On October 14, 2587 B.C.E., that all changed. Achmad was engaged in a drunken orgy at a brothel in Nippur. Someone slipped him some local cactus juice, and he started to hallucinate. All the whores around him turned into beasts and gods. When he recovered his senses, he realized that this would make a great novel, and over the next three weeks he penned the Enuma Elish, the Babylonian creation myth. It made the NYT Best Sellers list and Achmad retired a millionaire in Ur. Read all about it in A.A. Mills’ book.
The first creation story was written by Achmad from Mesopotamia. It was copied and somewhat edited by Shalman from Ashur. This was copied and somewhat edited by Imhotep from Lower Egypt. This was copied and somewhat edited by the great Hittite scholar Baal’napor from Bogaskoy. This was copied and somewhat edited by Cyrus The-Not-So-Great of Persepolis. (This version was a favorite among the drunken soldiers of Alexander, who discovered one of the scrolls in the vagina of one of the women in the harem of Darius XXXIVLXFBI, and thus, upon their crossing the Indus…..) This was copied and somewhat edited by the Dravidian kings of India. In 254 B.C.E. an Indian scribe brought one of these copies to an Arab sea merchant, who brought it to Australia via the Indian Ocean and sold it to Alinga, an Aboriginal chieftain. He transversed the great Australian desert and sold it for two women to a Polynesian voyager named Alih’i, who brought it to Easter Island. Something was lost in the translation, and the Easter Islanders thought that the giants of Genesis 6 were made of rock. You can guess what that led to.
Meanwhile, another group of drunken soldiers of Alexander returned to Macedonia and brought a copy of Cyrus The-Not-So-Great’s somewhat edited creation story. This was copied and somewhat edited by Eusipides the Dickless. He was a very frustrated man, but he did manage to sell his copy to Menachem Yizack, a Jewish trader of purple who happened to be in Philippi at the time. Yizack took his copy back to Jerusalem and showed it to the Rabbis. It was such a hit that they completely revamped the Jewish history and wrote themselves into Yizack’s story.
Meanwhile, Eusipides the Dickless sold another slightly edited copy to Fraudulus Maximus of Rome, who sold a slightly edited copy to Otto the Stinky from Saxony. His heirs, many centuries later, brought this copy to England during the Anglo-Saxon invasions. William the Long-Membered, a 10th Century monk, found a copy of this manuscript in the pelvic bones of a Briton slave buried in an abbey. About the same time, some traveling Jewish merchants came along with a slightly edited copy of Yizack’s Jewish creation story. William examined the two manuscripts, and since the Jews paid him a goodly price, he adopted their version (with appropriately slight editing), and it became the accepted version of all Christendom.
All of this is found in A.A. Mills’ three-volume work, “The Confusing History of Creation: Dickless and Long-Membered”.
Sounds like a missing Sixth Book of the Pentateuch: Neuteronomy.
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