SkepticX - 31 January 2012 05:15 AM

burt - 30 January 2012 09:31 PM

I hardly ever feel guilty (must be a sociopath) ...

Once the body’s buried and out of sight what’s to feel guilty about anyway ... eh?

And only I know where they are buried.

We know the Christian view of guilt.  I looked up the Buddhist view:

From http://viewonbuddhism.org/guilt.html

Guilt is usually a negative focus upon oneself: “I am an evil person. I can’t bear myself. I am unworthy.” While this response may appear in a religious guise, it often turns out to be a form of self-deprecating laziness. This can even lead to self-hatred, and certainly contributes to lack of self-confidence. Instead of recognising that ones actions are incorrect, one gets the feeling as if one is unworthy, as if “I” is intrinsically bad.
In Buddhism such type of guilt is categorised as a disturbing attitude: one doesn’t see the situation clearly and may well be a tricky form of self-centredness.

The rest of the article is informative.
The Buddhists take the view that one does not need to be forgiven to be absolved from guilt, though apologizing or taking remedial action is often appropriate.  The important thing is to make the effort to learn and change so that the bad action is not repeated.

burt - 30 January 2012 09:31 PM

SkepticX - 30 January 2012 06:58 PM

I decided in high school that guilt was very useful to inform you that you need to fix something about your behavior—make restitution if called for and possible—and that beyond such point as you’ve dealt with the issue (genuinely, not just thrown a platitude or two at it), guilt is useless and even harmful as anything more than a reminder. That was based largely upon my observations of and interactions with those around me, mostly at the church in which I grew up.

I hardly ever feel guilty (must be a sociopath), had a similar experience.  Didn’t like feeling guilty when I was a teen and thought it was stupid to do anything that would lead to feelings I didn’t like.

You must be really thoughtful.  I, on the other hand, inadvertently do dumb stuff that I need to apologize for, even though I’m not a kid any more.

hannahfriend - 31 January 2012 05:59 PM

burt - 30 January 2012 09:31 PM

SkepticX - 30 January 2012 06:58 PM

I decided in high school that guilt was very useful to inform you that you need to fix something about your behavior—make restitution if called for and possible—and that beyond such point as you’ve dealt with the issue (genuinely, not just thrown a platitude or two at it), guilt is useless and even harmful as anything more than a reminder. That was based largely upon my observations of and interactions with those around me, mostly at the church in which I grew up.

I hardly ever feel guilty (must be a sociopath), had a similar experience.  Didn’t like feeling guilty when I was a teen and thought it was stupid to do anything that would lead to feelings I didn’t like.

You must be really thoughtful.  I, on the other hand, inadvertently do dumb stuff that I need to apologize for, even though I’m not a kid any more.

Burt?

Me?

Both?

I’m guessing you were primarily addressing Burt ... I think ... but neither of us even suggested we never do dumb things for which we need to apologize.

SkepticX - 31 January 2012 06:48 PM

hannahfriend - 31 January 2012 05:59 PM

burt - 30 January 2012 09:31 PM

SkepticX - 30 January 2012 06:58 PM

I decided in high school that guilt was very useful to inform you that you need to fix something about your behavior—make restitution if called for and possible—and that beyond such point as you’ve dealt with the issue (genuinely, not just thrown a platitude or two at it), guilt is useless and even harmful as anything more than a reminder. That was based largely upon my observations of and interactions with those around me, mostly at the church in which I grew up.

I hardly ever feel guilty (must be a sociopath), had a similar experience.  Didn’t like feeling guilty when I was a teen and thought it was stupid to do anything that would lead to feelings I didn’t like.

You must be really thoughtful.  I, on the other hand, inadvertently do dumb stuff that I need to apologize for, even though I’m not a kid any more.

Burt?

Me?

Both?

I’m guessing you were primarily addressing Burt ... I think ... but neither of us even suggested we never do dumb things for which we need to apologize.

Well perhaps both of you have a healthier sense of forgiveness for yourself and others than I have.

I think my heightened sense of guilt over my actions as a child and young adult was the result of growing up in a family in which forgiveness was rare.  As I gradually learned to forgive more, I came to realize most people were not as unforgiving as I had projected.  I felt less fear of guilt and less gnawing of guilt.

It is interesting that my mother became a much nicer person when she developed dementia.  She could no longer remember or tally perceived wrongs against her.  Mom had always been marvelous at rationalizing her bad behavior and putting blame on others.  With forgetfulness, she didn’t really become more forgiving, but at least stopped holding onto indignation.  It is really sad that she couldn’t be more forgiving before she reached 80+ years.

hannahfriend - 31 January 2012 05:59 PM

burt - 30 January 2012 09:31 PM

SkepticX - 30 January 2012 06:58 PM

I decided in high school that guilt was very useful to inform you that you need to fix something about your behavior—make restitution if called for and possible—and that beyond such point as you’ve dealt with the issue (genuinely, not just thrown a platitude or two at it), guilt is useless and even harmful as anything more than a reminder. That was based largely upon my observations of and interactions with those around me, mostly at the church in which I grew up.

I hardly ever feel guilty (must be a sociopath), had a similar experience.  Didn’t like feeling guilty when I was a teen and thought it was stupid to do anything that would lead to feelings I didn’t like.

You must be really thoughtful.  I, on the other hand, inadvertently do dumb stuff that I need to apologize for, even though I’m not a kid any more.

I do lots of dumb stuff, but don’t feel guilty about that.  After all, as a guy I’m expected to do dumb stuff.

burt - 30 January 2012 09:31 PM

I hardly ever feel guilty (must be a sociopath)...

So now I’m curious, burt, in what situations do you feel guilty, as your statment implies? And is the term guilt being used differently than remorse, regret, rue, etc which would also tend to elicit apology, amends, atonement, reparation, etc.?