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I don’t know. Indonesia is a tricky area. They seem content to relegate more local control by Islamists while nationally courting the attention of business interests from the rest of the world who seem to be walking on eggshells when it comes to promoting democracy. Obama says he’s going to focus on Southeast Asia. There is periodic suspension of aid for certain violent acts in return for cooperation. Perhaps Atheists can benefit from protests under a banner of democracy and human rights relating to freedom of speech but I think Gays probably would have a better chance of intervention or condemnation as a human rights issue. Don’t expect the worldwide religious community to come to his aid, we’re last on everybody’s shit list. As you can see, Atheism takes a back seat to Confucianism and animism. I wouldn’t expect the U.S. government to exert pressure, the relationship seems fragile and sensitive. I don’t think global Secular/Atheist condemnation would have much of an effect either, although it should be registered for the record. Internal protests may be the only answer but how many Atheists can there be there? I don’t think there’s much to be done for this poor guy.
Constitutional guarantees of religious freedom apply to the six religions recognized by the state, namely Islam (86.1%), Protestantism (5.7%), Catholicism (3%), Hinduism (1.8%), Buddhism (about 1%), and Confucianism (less than 1%). On the resort island of Bali, over 90% of the population practices Hinduism. In some remote areas, animism is still practiced.
I’ve been searching the Internet and visiting other online forums to see if anyone has taken this up yet. There must be ways of helping this guy. I don’t know whether he has called for, or is even in a position to call for, assistance but I’d like to help if he needs it. Knowing what I do about the deeply muslim parts of our neighbour to the north I cannot see this ending well for him. If he could just find his way to Australia I believe I could successfully argue his case for asylum under teh UN Refugee Convention - either on grounds of religious freedom or his persecution as a member of a particular social group.
He has been beaten, sacked from his job, locked up… All this is on the public record so there’d be no problems proving persecution. I’d love to do this one before I retire. Not for me but for him and the wider cause of freedom from religion. I would gladly do it gratis.
This is something I think we should all get behind. If only we knew how. Amnesty International will no doubt get involved with this and perhaps the best way to help will be through them. I’ll be keeping my eyes open and ear to the ground.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 21 January 2012 03:34 AM
I’ve been searching the Internet and visiting other online forums to see if anyone has taken this up yet. There must be ways of helping this guy. I don’t know whether he has called for, or is even in a position to call for, assistance but I’d like to help if he needs it. Knowing what I do about the deeply muslim parts of our neighbour to the north I cannot see this ending well for him. If he could just find his way to Australia I believe I could successfully argue his case for asylum under teh UN Refugee Convention - either on grounds of religious freedom or his persecution as a member of a particular social group.
He has been beaten, sacked from his job, locked up… All this is on the public record so there’d be no problems proving persecution. I’d love to do this one before I retire. Not for me but for him and the wider cause of freedom from religion. I would gladly do it gratis.
This is something I think we should all get behind. If only we knew how. Amnesty International will no doubt get involved with this and perhaps the best way to help will be through them. I’ll be keeping my eyes open and ear to the ground.
Good for you Rob, hopefully for him also, the “Ateis Minang” user still appears on facebook, I don’t suppose the authorities can alter that.
I wonder why he expressed his view this way, I am supposing he was in full knowledge of the possible consequences.
Still it just goes to show how religious tolerance doesn’t extend to those who don’t have or care about any god, it’s sickening.
I don’t know. Indonesia is a tricky area. They seem content to relegate more local control by Islamists while nationally courting the attention of business interests from the rest of the world who seem to be walking on eggshells when it comes to promoting democracy. Obama says he’s going to focus on Southeast Asia. There is periodic suspension of aid for certain violent acts in return for cooperation. Perhaps Atheists can benefit from protests under a banner of democracy and human rights relating to freedom of speech but I think Gays probably would have a better chance of intervention or condemnation as a human rights issue. Don’t expect the worldwide religious community to come to his aid, we’re last on everybody’s shit list. As you can see, Atheism takes a back seat to Confucianism and animism. I wouldn’t expect the U.S. government to exert pressure, the relationship seems fragile and sensitive. I don’t think global Secular/Atheist condemnation would have much of an effect either, although it should be registered for the record. Internal protests may be the only answer but how many Atheists can there be there? I don’t think there’s much to be done for this poor guy.
Constitutional guarantees of religious freedom apply to the six religions recognized by the state, namely Islam (86.1%), Protestantism (5.7%), Catholicism (3%), Hinduism (1.8%), Buddhism (about 1%), and Confucianism (less than 1%). On the resort island of Bali, over 90% of the population practices Hinduism. In some remote areas, animism is still practiced.
Good link to info, Answerer. In my cases I often refer to stats from the US State Department (along with info from Amnesty and other NGOs) when arguing about ‘country conditions’.
I agree that we can’t expect much help form the USA. Some parts of it are more nuttilly religious than just about anywhere. And as for the worldwide religious (christian) community? Forget it. They’d rather convert to Islam than help an atheist.
Internal protests on the basis of freedom of speech are unlikely to happen in Indonesia without dire repercussions for the protesters from both the authorities and the fanatical muslims who infect the place and murder and blow up nightclubs etc all over the country.
I think atheist groups all over the world must register their concerns with their governments and with Amnesty International. I’m going to try to email Sam and the others to see if they are interested in doing anything. The Internet must be made to buzz hot with this.
At the same time, we don’t want to do anything to put this guy in greater danger than he’s already in.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 21 January 2012 05:37 AM
Answerer - 20 January 2012 11:02 PM
I don’t know. Indonesia is a tricky area. They seem content to relegate more local control by Islamists while nationally courting the attention of business interests from the rest of the world who seem to be walking on eggshells when it comes to promoting democracy. Obama says he’s going to focus on Southeast Asia. There is periodic suspension of aid for certain violent acts in return for cooperation. Perhaps Atheists can benefit from protests under a banner of democracy and human rights relating to freedom of speech but I think Gays probably would have a better chance of intervention or condemnation as a human rights issue. Don’t expect the worldwide religious community to come to his aid, we’re last on everybody’s shit list. As you can see, Atheism takes a back seat to Confucianism and animism. I wouldn’t expect the U.S. government to exert pressure, the relationship seems fragile and sensitive. I don’t think global Secular/Atheist condemnation would have much of an effect either, although it should be registered for the record. Internal protests may be the only answer but how many Atheists can there be there? I don’t think there’s much to be done for this poor guy.
Constitutional guarantees of religious freedom apply to the six religions recognized by the state, namely Islam (86.1%), Protestantism (5.7%), Catholicism (3%), Hinduism (1.8%), Buddhism (about 1%), and Confucianism (less than 1%). On the resort island of Bali, over 90% of the population practices Hinduism. In some remote areas, animism is still practiced.
Good link to info, Answerer. In my cases I often refer to stats from the US State Department (along with info from Amnesty and other NGOs) when arguing about ‘country conditions’.
I agree that we can’t expect much help form the USA. Some parts of it are more nuttilly religious than just about anywhere. And as for the worldwide religious (christian) community? Forget it. They’d rather convert to Islam than help an atheist.
Internal protests on the basis of freedom of speech are unlikely to happen in Indonesia without dire repercussions for the protesters from both the authorities and the fanatical muslims who infect the place and murder and blow up nightclubs etc all over the country.
I think atheist groups all over the world must register their concerns with their governments and with Amnesty International. I’m going to try to email Sam and the others to see if they are interested in doing anything. The Internet must be made to buzz hot with this.
At the same time, we don’t want to do anything to put this guy in greater danger than he’s already in.
Good luck. Your concern is admirable. Let us know what, if anything, we can do. I sure don’t know. A massive publicity and internet protest campaign would be something. Hope Sam gets involved.
Your generous offer to help, Rob, is admirable. Is there a way to find out if the man wants asylum? And if so, how to get him free from the authorities? He may end up in jail first and need help upon release.
Good luck. Your concern is admirable. Let us know what, if anything, we can do. I sure don’t know. A massive publicity and internet protest campaign would be something. Hope Sam gets involved.
That’s the last thing he needs, a famous atheist supporting him?!
Good luck. Your concern is admirable. Let us know what, if anything, we can do. I sure don’t know. A massive publicity and internet protest campaign would be something. Hope Sam gets involved.
That’s the last thing he needs, a famous atheist supporting him?!
Famous or not, it seems like Atheists in numbers may be the only expression of outrage that anyone will offer or pay attention to. Ironically, anti-Islamic right-wing America would seem to be caught in a dilemma on this one. It surely is a test to see how “freedom-loving” they really are.
PS: It’s also a test of Liberal Muslims ... Religion itself for that matter.
Good luck. Your concern is admirable. Let us know what, if anything, we can do. I sure don’t know. A massive publicity and internet protest campaign would be something. Hope Sam gets involved.
That’s the last thing he needs, a famous atheist supporting him?!
Famous or not, it seems like Atheists in numbers may be the only expression of outrage that anyone will offer or pay attention to. Ironically, anti-Islamic right-wing America would seem to be caught in a dilemma on this one. It surely is a test to see how “freedom-loving” they really are.
Different country and culture. If he’s to be helped, it’d be by someone within both.
Different country and culture. If he’s to be helped, it’d be by someone within both.
Amnesty International may have something to say about that.
It may be that he can’t be helped. But this needs to be brought to world attention and condemnation issued nonetheless. It’s a freedom of speech, religion, democracy issue. American business interests in Indonesia would be condoning or appear to be in cahoots with extreme Islamism no matter the price for the almighty dollar (which is a reality anyhow).
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