Antisocialdarwinist - 24 January 2012 08:09 PM

Destination Immortality - 24 January 2012 04:37 PM

as far as cheating is concerned, i believe it is driven by our capacity to imagine how things could be different than expected. the same mechanisms that caused us to go outside the bounds of nature and create our own rules for our survival is what drives people to go outside the bounds of society to try and create their own rules. it is basically that same capacity for imagination driving the desire to experiment and see if survival is better if, in a given instance, one ignores the so-called “rules” and tries it another way.

So the asshole who smashes your car window and steals your stereo isn’t doing it because he thinks he can get away with it, or because he’s not afraid of going back to prison, or even because he’s fucked up on meth—he’s doing it because he has the “capacity for imagination driving the desire to experiment and see if survival is better if, in a given instance, one ignores the so-called ‘rules’ and tries it another way.” Got it.

you seem to be ignoring the larger thrust of my argument by pointing out locally insufficiently-defined mechanics.

i don’t suppose it would bring you back on track to agree that yes, drug induced thefts are possible. hell, drug induced any kind of behavior is possible and is, just as often as not, totally senseless. random or erratic behavior is not terribly relevant or useful for explaining fundamental motivations.

additionally, when you argue that an individual steals a stereo “because he thinks he can get away with it,” what does that mean, exactly? what do you think is motivating that behavior? would you say its something very different from what i proposed about going outside one’s perceived boundaries? does it, in your opinion, have nothing to do with survival? if not, then perhaps the qualitative experience of life? no?

as far as prison is concerned, these negative outcomes exist for almost all behaviors. but why do you think so many powerful men still end up cheating on their wives, though social ostracization may clearly await? why do so many rich corporations end up channeling vast amounts of their wealth into the hands of a very small number of people, though legal trouble may follow such obvious greed? even examining more legal activities, why do so many people ski or snowboard down huge snow-covered mountains when the possibility of breaking one’s arm, leg, or even losing their life altogether, is very real?

you really haven’t thought about why people do these things, have you?

Destination Immortality - 01 February 2012 07:55 AM

GAD - 24 January 2012 09:27 PM

No it’s not about what what you see it’s about falsely quoting another poster. You can write about what you see as much as you want without falsely quoting someone else so that is just a bullshit justification to try and save face. You would have gained a little respect if you had just said your bad and apologized and took your lumps. Instead you lost respect by trying to justify it as being OK.

 

wow jesus is everyone such a crybaby? i’m sorry you can’t read. his post is here in its original form right here in this very thread, so the contrast should be obvious. i must be the horrible satan (or something) for daring to think anyone is capable of looking past the obvious.

excuse me for even a moment requiring you to use more than a minimum of thought in extracting meaning, or expecting you to be “hip” to occasional internet posting conventions, even if they are not totally nice ones.

there there. you can stop hiding your head under the pillow, k? nhoj has come to your rescue.

although you should consider how free it really makes you from people like me if you need an authority to exert a negative force on others to grant you some measure of…what would you call it? politeness? safety?

one way or the other, servitude to the yoke of tyrannical rule seems to be your inevitable destination.

The only person crying that they can’t do whatever they want is you.

Destination Immortality - 01 February 2012 08:36 AM

Antisocialdarwinist - 24 January 2012 08:09 PM

Destination Immortality - 24 January 2012 04:37 PM

as far as cheating is concerned, i believe it is driven by our capacity to imagine how things could be different than expected. the same mechanisms that caused us to go outside the bounds of nature and create our own rules for our survival is what drives people to go outside the bounds of society to try and create their own rules. it is basically that same capacity for imagination driving the desire to experiment and see if survival is better if, in a given instance, one ignores the so-called “rules” and tries it another way.

So the asshole who smashes your car window and steals your stereo isn’t doing it because he thinks he can get away with it, or because he’s not afraid of going back to prison, or even because he’s fucked up on meth—he’s doing it because he has the “capacity for imagination driving the desire to experiment and see if survival is better if, in a given instance, one ignores the so-called ‘rules’ and tries it another way.” Got it.

 

you seem to be ignoring the larger thrust of my argument by pointing out locally insufficiently-defined mechanics.

i don’t suppose it would bring you back on track to agree that yes, drug induced thefts are possible. hell, drug induced any kind of behavior is possible and is, just as often as not, totally senseless. random or erratic behavior is not terribly relevant or useful for explaining fundamental motivations.

additionally, when you argue that an individual steals a stereo “because he thinks he can get away with it,” what does that mean, exactly? what do you think is motivating that behavior? would you say its something very different from what i proposed about going outside one’s perceived boundaries? does it, in your opinion, have nothing to do with survival? if not, then perhaps the qualitative experience of life? no?

(The perceived likelihood of getting away with it) * (the effect of possessing your stereo on his well-being ) > (The perceived likelihood of getting caught) * (the effect of punishment on his well-being)

Destination Immortality - 01 February 2012 08:36 AM

as far as prison is concerned, these negative outcomes exist for almost all behaviors. but why do you think so many powerful men still end up cheating on their wives, though social ostracization may clearly await?

Social ostracization? For getting caught cheating on your wife? Ha ha. What world are you living in?

Destination Immortality - 01 February 2012 08:36 AM

why do so many rich corporations end up channeling vast amounts of their wealth into the hands of a very small number of people, though legal trouble may follow such obvious greed?

“rich corporations” don’t channel “vast amounts of their wealth” anywhere. The people who run those corporations channel it into their own hands. And their motivation is pretty much the same as that of the guy who steals your car stereo:

(The perceived likelihood of getting away with it) * (the effect of possessing vast amounts of wealth on their well-being) > (The perceived likelihood of getting caught) * (the effect of punishment on their well-being)

Destination Immortality - 01 February 2012 08:36 AM

even examining more legal activities, why do so many people ski or snowboard down huge snow-covered mountains when the possibility of breaking one’s arm, leg, or even losing their life altogether, is very real?

(The perceived risk of not breaking one’s arm, leg, or even losing their life altogether) * (the effect of snowboarding down huge, snow-covered mountains on their well-being) > (The perceived risk of breaking one’s arm, leg, or even losing their life altogether) * (the effect of breaking one’s arm, leg or even losing their life altogether on their well-being)

The Rape theory might work if we were snakes or lizards and just layed eggs—so that getting out as much DNA as possible was the best way to ensure continuation of your genetic pool.

BUt Humans have a long dependency period and need bonding and community support to survive into adulthood.  Wouldnt Mothers who experience rape trauma leading to child birth face greater bonding issues, mental health issues and trust raising her child in a community that allows rape?  (Rape breaks community/group fabric, which is why it is used as a weapon of war!)

Moreover, Men who are not certain that they are indeed protecting and giving ressources to their own offspring may be less likely to protect it.