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A guy I know—mostly from another forum, although we have met in real life—was raised as a Mormon, but became a pretty outspoken atheist several years ago, before we met. It was a big deal for him, and for awhile he was even blogging regularly about it. On the forum we know each other from, he was one of the most militant and vocal atheists.
Well, fast-forward to this fall; we don’t stay in real close touch, but I had noticed that he’d sort of dropped off the radar; but that wasn’t too surprising since at least once he scrapped his old Facebook profile because his wife thought he’d given out too much information and had associated her with too many radical opinions and so forth. She’s a real sweetheart, mind you, and to be honest he was a little over-the-top for a family man; I use my Facebook page to stay in touch with old friends and family, and I try to keep it pretty vanilla and family-oriented as a result, but whatever. I just figured that Mrs. Ex-Mormon had just laid down the law and told him to behave again. And maybe he’d also promised to stay away from online forums, where he was getting all worked up about stuff.
Well, he finally contacted me last week—he apologized that when he yet again deleted his Facebook account he forgot to add me as a friend to his new one, for which he has a pretty small Friends list. Actually, it was evidently his wife who noticed this—she really liked my wife when we met and she has stayed FB friends with both of us this whole time, and she wanted him to stay in touch with me.
Anyway, he explained that things had been real crazy, a lot was going on, and he didn’t really want to go into detail—he assured me that he, his wife, and their daughters were fine, and that things were getting better. I wished him well and left it at that.
Then, now that we FB friends again, I see that he’s posting about job interviews and job hunting. So I PM him to ask if one of the things that have gone on is the current job; his response was that he got fired this Fall, and the circumstances were very embarrassing. Once again, I didn’t pry, and wished him good luck.
Well, he’s had some interviews recently, and that’s a good thing. Also, he’s been quoting Bible versus. And talking about “God’s will.” And today he posted that “I’ve done everything I can; from here on it’s all in God’s hands.” So, not so much an atheist anymore.
Again, we’re not super-close, and since they live several states away we may never meet them again, but still this is my first confirmed atheist friend as an adult (rather than, say, college-age) who has seemingly gone back to being a believer. And it appears that he did so as a reaction to a personal and professional humiliation and the fallout in his family life that you would expect.
No real point here, I guess. No real question, either. Just…it’s a weird feeling. A little sad, I guess, although of course the important thing is that I want him to get a job again for his family’s sake and his own. But it is a slight feeling of loss, knowing that there’s a bit more of a gulf between me and them that there wasn’t before.
About 12 years ago I connected with my first high school girlfriend. Since then we’ve been in touch regularly and my wife and I visit her when we have the opportunity. When we first saw her, she was recently divorced. She told this story of how it happened: she and her husband were secular Jews. Her husband was a professor in Slavic languages and had his sights set on the chair of Slavic language at Harvard. He had the career path all planned out, knew when the holder of that chair would retire, and aimed to peak for that time in his publications, etc. Time came, he applied, made the short list and was interviewed. Didn’t get the job. He blamed it on antisemitism (at Harvard???) and went from being an agnostic secular Jew to Ultra-Conservative. That led to problems in the marriage eventually resulting in divorce. (My comment was: if he’d been a Catholic he would have turned to booze and broads).
About 12 years ago I connected with my first high school girlfriend. Since then we’ve been in touch regularly and my wife and I visit her when we have the opportunity. When we first saw her, she was recently divorced. She told this story of how it happened: she and her husband were secular Jews. Her husband was a professor in Slavic languages and had his sights set on the chair of Slavic language at Harvard. He had the career path all planned out, knew when the holder of that chair would retire, and aimed to peak for that time in his publications, etc. Time came, he applied, made the short list and was interviewed. Didn’t get the job. He blamed it on antisemitism (at Harvard???) and went from being an agnostic secular Jew to Ultra-Conservative. That led to problems in the marriage eventually resulting in divorce. (My comment was: if he’d been a Catholic he would have turned to booze and broads).
There used to be a prof at UNL who went from being a hardline Marxist-Leninist who supported the Viet Cong to “rediscovering” his Jewish roots and becoming an extremely religious and bigoted Orthodox Jew. He would lecture girls in class about sexual modesty and write letters to the school paper deriding the Palestinians on campus as “mud people”. He once even got arrested for “accidentally” firing his gun through the window of some Arab neighbors—the window of the nursery where their infant child slept. Yet he still had pro-Communist slogans on his office door, and from what I understood he lived a spartan existence and donated most of his salary to secular left-wing causes.
The Dean of the dept. had a stack on complaints about him that practically needed its own file drawer; but he had tenure, so everybody put up with him. To be fair—he did know his stuff really well, and he was an engaging and charismatic lecturer.
A guy I know—mostly from another forum, although we have met in real life—was raised as a Mormon, but became a pretty outspoken atheist several years ago, before we met. It was a big deal for him, and for awhile he was even blogging regularly about it. On the forum we know each other from, he was one of the most militant and vocal atheists.
Well, fast-forward to this fall; we don’t stay in real close touch, but I had noticed that he’d sort of dropped off the radar; but that wasn’t too surprising since at least once he scrapped his old Facebook profile because his wife thought he’d given out too much information and had associated her with too many radical opinions and so forth. She’s a real sweetheart, mind you, and to be honest he was a little over-the-top for a family man; I use my Facebook page to stay in touch with old friends and family, and I try to keep it pretty vanilla and family-oriented as a result, but whatever. I just figured that Mrs. Ex-Mormon had just laid down the law and told him to behave again. And maybe he’d also promised to stay away from online forums, where he was getting all worked up about stuff.
Well, he finally contacted me last week—he apologized that when he yet again deleted his Facebook account he forgot to add me as a friend to his new one, for which he has a pretty small Friends list. Actually, it was evidently his wife who noticed this—she really liked my wife when we met and she has stayed FB friends with both of us this whole time, and she wanted him to stay in touch with me.
Anyway, he explained that things had been real crazy, a lot was going on, and he didn’t really want to go into detail—he assured me that he, his wife, and their daughters were fine, and that things were getting better. I wished him well and left it at that.
Then, now that we FB friends again, I see that he’s posting about job interviews and job hunting. So I PM him to ask if one of the things that have gone on is the current job; his response was that he got fired this Fall, and the circumstances were very embarrassing. Once again, I didn’t pry, and wished him good luck.
Well, he’s had some interviews recently, and that’s a good thing. Also, he’s been quoting Bible versus. And talking about “God’s will.” And today he posted that “I’ve done everything I can; from here on it’s all in God’s hands.” So, not so much an atheist anymore.
Again, we’re not super-close, and since they live several states away we may never meet them again, but still this is my first confirmed atheist friend as an adult (rather than, say, college-age) who has seemingly gone back to being a believer. And it appears that he did so as a reaction to a personal and professional humiliation and the fallout in his family life that you would expect.
No real point here, I guess. No real question, either. Just…it’s a weird feeling. A little sad, I guess, although of course the important thing is that I want him to get a job again for his family’s sake and his own. But it is a slight feeling of loss, knowing that there’s a bit more of a gulf between me and them that there wasn’t before.
Anybody else have similar experiences?
That’s interesting, BRF. I’ve occasionally wondered about wheher I could ever ‘backslide’. What would it take? A foxhole? Nah, I just can’t see it. Not unless I could get over the cog-dis. But then, in extremis, who knows where our minds will take us. Not that the circumstances of the guy you speak of sounded all that extreme. He lost his job. I guess for some that might be a nighmare. But surely not an intellectual/existential one. Maybe he was never as far removed from superstition as he liked to make out.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft (Rob) - 12 January 2012 11:53 AM
That’s interesting, BRF. I’ve occasionally wondered about wheher I could ever ‘backslide’. What would it take? A foxhole? Nah, I just can’t see it. Not unless I could get over the cog-dis. But then, in extremis, who knows where our minds will take us. Not that the circumstances of the guy you speak of sounded all that extreme. He lost his job. I guess for some that might be a nighmare. But surely not an intellectual/existential one. Maybe he was never as far removed from superstition as he liked to make out.
Well, he seems to have found God, but he was raised a pretty strict Mormon; it’s worth noting that he’s been quoting Bible versus, not Mormon scripture. And he still very occasionally posts on the Politics forum I know him from, and he still sounds fairly liberal in his politics, so I doubt he’s gone back to the LDS.
I don’t think that it was just that he lost his job, but that he got fired for reasons he’s ashamed of and wasn’t ready to discuss. Keep in mind his family are still religious, and of course a lot of his old friends from the past were Mormon as well. He still lives in the same community he was raised in, a pretty conventional suburb much like mine (but quite a bit more whitebread from what it sounds), and much of his social life was still the same people he knew growing up. And again—he was very ashamed of whatever it was that got him fired. Also, he’d about 10 years younger than me—he became an atheist in his 20s; now he’s in his early 30s. Maybe he was “outgrowing” his atheism and this crisis forced the change.
I am curious to know where his head is at, but I don’t quite know how to broach the subject. I’ll probably let it lie, at least until he’s employed again and things are settled. Or maybe just let it go—we’re not that close, and aside from left-leaning politics and atheism—and soccer—we didn’t have much in common.
I am curious to know where his head is at, but I don’t quite know how to broach the subject. I’ll probably let it lie, at least until he’s employed again and things are settled. Or maybe just let it go—we’re not that close, and aside from left-leaning politics and atheism—and soccer—we didn’t have much in common.
I’d be inclined to let it go as well, maybe one day he’ll say something.
I am curious to know where his head is at, but I don’t quite know how to broach the subject. I’ll probably let it lie, at least until he’s employed again and things are settled. Or maybe just let it go—we’re not that close, and aside from left-leaning politics and atheism—and soccer—we didn’t have much in common.
I’d be inclined to let it go as well, maybe one day he’ll say something.
Curiosity aside, that’s almost certainly what I’ll do. There’s clearly a lot he’s not quite ready to discuss yet; I’ll leave it at that and wish him and his family the best.
I’d be inclined to let it go as well, maybe one day he’ll say something.
Curiosity aside, that’s almost certainly what I’ll do. There’s clearly a lot he’s not quite ready to discuss yet; I’ll leave it at that and wish him and his family the best.
If you’re asking if we know anyone in the Atheist Mafia who could take care of him for apostasy then I’ll see what I can do. If not, then forget I mentioned it and keep this entre nous.
I’d be inclined to let it go as well, maybe one day he’ll say something.
Curiosity aside, that’s almost certainly what I’ll do. There’s clearly a lot he’s not quite ready to discuss yet; I’ll leave it at that and wish him and his family the best.
If you’re asking if we know anyone in the Atheist Mafia who could take care of him for apostasy then I’ll see what I can do. If not, then forget I mentioned it and keep this entre nous.
THAT’S what we’re doing wrong—we need to borrow a page from the Islamist playbook and condemn apostates to death. It’s just too easy to leave.
It ALL comes down to individual, personal, subjective experience. If the circumstances of a person’s life lead them to believe that God exists, they believe. If not, they don’t. You guys need to start listening to me.
Follow ME. I will lead you to truth. I alone. Yes.
It ALL comes down to individual, personal, subjective experience. If the circumstances of a person’s life lead them to believe that God exists, they believe. If not, they don’t. You guys need to start listening to me.
Follow ME. I will lead you to truth. I alone. Yes.
It ALL comes down to individual, personal, subjective experience. If the circumstances of a person’s life lead them to believe that God exists, they believe. If not, they don’t. You guys need to start listening to me.
Follow ME. I will lead you to truth. I alone. Yes.
Follow ME. I will lead you to truth. I alone. Yes.
Lay off the juice.
I don’t know, it’s better than the “HA! HA! your all scum, your all going to die because I’m the only one who will be saved!” . Which is what we usually get for posting here.
A guy I know—mostly from another forum, although we have met in real life—was raised as a Mormon, but became a pretty outspoken atheist several years ago, before we met. It was a big deal for him, and for awhile he was even blogging regularly about it. On the forum we know each other from, he was one of the most militant and vocal atheists.
Sounds like a more emotional thinker type ... not surprising if his worldview changes with the winds.
