http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtIREJVPfQY

Duh.

Assume for the sake of argument that Sprong’s view of God was correct. Would you believe?

Ecurb Noselrub - 05 December 2011 07:48 PM

Assume for the sake of argument that Sprong’s view of God was correct. Would you believe?

Spong’s an atheist, so yeah, I believe in Spong’s version of “God”, personally.

SkepticX - 05 December 2011 08:06 PM

Ecurb Noselrub - 05 December 2011 07:48 PM

Assume for the sake of argument that Sprong’s view of God was correct. Would you believe?

Spong’s an atheist, so yeah, I believe in Spong’s version of “God”, personally.

He believes in God, according to this video, so how could he be an atheist? From his website:

A committed Christian who has spent a lifetime studying the Bible and whose life has been deeply shaped by it, Bishop Spong says he was not interested in Bible bashing. “I come to this interpretive task not as an enemy of Christianity,” he says. “I am not even a disillusioned former Christian, as some of my scholar-friends identify themselves. I am a believer who knows and loves the Bible deeply. But I also recognize that parts of it have been used to undergird prejudices and to mask violence.”

Ecurb Noselrub - 05 December 2011 07:48 PM

Assume for the sake of argument that Sprong’s view of God was correct. Would you believe?

(Andrw):  To acknowldege that Spong’s view is correct, it seems like you’d have to be a believer.

SkepticX - 05 December 2011 08:06 PM

Spong’s an atheist…

(Andrew):  He’s not a Christian in the classic sense, but he’s not an atheist.

Ecurb Noselrub - 05 December 2011 07:48 PM

Assume for the sake of argument that Sprong’s view of God was correct. Would you believe?

Extraordinary claims still require extraordinary evidence.

However, Spong’s view is far less objectionable than much of the devisive, prejudicial BS found in much of modern Christianity.

I have been a great fan of John Shelby Spong for many years.  I keep telling everyone here that there is a subset of liberal Christians, who aren’t offensive at all.  Unfortunately, they are a small minority and few people have ever heard of them.  Maybe that’s good.  If they did, I’m sure they would receive a lot of hate mail and death threats from the fundies.

He’s a christain in the sense of ‘christain’ that Don Cupitt was when he wrote The Sea of Faith back in 1984. This book was an eye opener for me all those years ago directed me onto my long journey of ‘detheification’ (to steal a word from someone here). I have read all of Spongs books and I have no doubt that he is the same sort of ‘action’ as opposed to ‘belief’ christain that Cupitt was in 1984. Cupitt, a former anglican priest, is now an atheist.

saralynn - 06 December 2011 06:06 AM

I have been a great fan of John Shelby Spong for many years.

(Andrew):  Me, too.  I was fortunate to have been able to hear him speak frequently when he was minister at St Paul’s church in Richmond.  I’ve always said that if Christianity has a future, it’s in the direction that Spong wants to take it.

‘I am a believer who knows and loves the Bible deeply’

Huh. Wonder what he knows and loves about the Bible. I wonder what he thinks he knows about the Bible. I wonder if he loves his interpretations of the Bible. I wonder if he cares about forgeries, contradictions, errors etc., in the Bible. I wonder if he just picks out the things he favors in the Bible and knows and loves those things.

Sounds like a typical modern Christian if so.

Avogadro’s number - 06 December 2011 08:49 AM

‘I am a believer who knows and loves the Bible deeply’

Huh. Wonder what he knows and loves about the Bible. I wonder what he thinks he knows about the Bible. I wonder if he loves his interpretations of the Bible. I wonder if he cares about forgeries, contradictions, errors etc., in the Bible. I wonder if he just picks out the things he favors in the Bible and knows and loves those things.

Sounds like a typical modern Christian if so.

(Andrew):  He’s arguably the leader of so-called “modern, liberal Christianity”—at least the most vocal.  He has great respect for the Bible, and knows a lot about how and when and under what circumstances it was written, including forgeries and what-not.  I’m sure that’s what he meant. 
If you’ve never read any of his stuff, you’d probably enjoy it.  He’s sort of like Ecurb…once you get past his “faith”, he’s a good guy.

Andrew - 06 December 2011 09:19 AM

(Andrew):  He’s arguably the leader of so-called “modern, liberal Christianity”—at least the most vocal.  He has great respect for the Bible, and knows a lot about how and when and under what circumstances it was written, including forgeries and what-not.  I’m sure that’s what he meant. 
If you’ve never read any of his stuff, you’d probably enjoy it.  He’s sort of like Ecurb…once you get past his “faith”, he’s a good guy.

His “faith” is really more just ... well, not.

He’s the archetypal “meaningful mythology” type Christian to me. He finds the forms of Christianity comfortable/comforting, but has none of the associated delusions going on. He’s really a pseudo-believer. Brilliant man. He’s where Religion has to go to survive long term, I think. Or maybe a better way to put it would be that he’s where Religion has to go to stop being harmful ... ?

Liberal Christianity: Reaching out with sloth like patience to grasp things that have been obvious for centuries. I apologize for not being impressed.

Still, anyone who can dispel an idea like hell from their brain has made moral progress. And that’s a good thing.

Ah, yes, moral progress. Can moral progress be made if morality is ulimately relative? Would that not be like saying there could be scientific progress if the laws of nature were realtive?