TheBrotherMario - 09 October 2011 07:22 AM

To proclaim your theism is the product of deep thought and courageous effort, when it is simply quickly arrived at and ignorantly built upon, is to lie to yourself and others.

There - I fixed it for you.

Ron
PS - If your god commanded you to kill your own child, would you do it?

I know that generally, although there are exceptions, people who are non-religious don’t tend to go about pronouncing it from pulpits and market squares.

Could it be that all that is needed is for the media to report more secular stories, to see value in progress and not a threat to their beliefs. I admit this would be a slow process as the bias is already there in favour of the opposing view (generally) and they have got a considerable head start on us.

MrRon - 14 October 2011 02:25 PM

TheBrotherMario - 09 October 2011 07:22 AM

To proclaim your theism is the product of deep thought and courageous effort, when it is simply quickly arrived at and ignorantly built upon, is to lie to yourself and others.

There - I fixed it for you.

Yeah, the corrected version there is one of the most clear indications from what little data has been acquired and analyzed on the matter. That and that apostates tend to do precisely the opposite—apostasy tends to result only after a relatively long period of research and/or careful contemplation.

lokidervish - 14 October 2011 12:08 PM

Wars being fought by leaders who consult imaginary friends in the sky have got to come to an end.

On Halloween, what could be stranger than the realization that many of our neighbors, maybe most of them, really do believe that a corpse can back to life, and that the God they worship had an affair with a girl called Mary and got her pregnant - especially after everything he said about coveting another man’s wife.

SkepticX - 09 October 2011 08:01 AM

TheBrotherMario - 09 October 2011 07:22 AM

... dismissing a deity because of the actions of people in some religion is like dismissing sports because players strike out and teams lose.

Just thought I’d make a note here, because I happened to spot something Mario Brother posted that’s actually rational, even reasonable since I edited out the three-year-old sticking his chest out in defiance of the world pretext.

Usually, people dismiss sports because they think the game is silly.

And I, frankly, would be really worried if somebody assured me that nothing in their faith would affect their judgments, because then I’d wonder, where’s your judgment—how can you have judgment if you have no faith?

- Newt Gingrich

Try the frontal lobes, Newt.

Belief in the Brain
Sacred and secular ideas engage identical areas

Function:

The frontal lobes are involved in several functions of the body including:

•Motor Functions
•Higher Order Functions
•Planning
•Reasoning
•Judgment
•Impulse Control
•Memory

Answerer - 04 November 2011 06:21 PM

SkepticX - 09 October 2011 08:01 AM

TheBrotherMario - 09 October 2011 07:22 AM

... dismissing a deity because of the actions of people in some religion is like dismissing sports because players strike out and teams lose.

Just thought I’d make a note here, because I happened to spot something Mario Brother posted that’s actually rational, even reasonable since I edited out the three-year-old sticking his chest out in defiance of the world pretext.

Usually, people dismiss sports because they think the game is silly.

What do you think the sports equivalent of religion could be??  Mesoamerican volleyball maybe, where penalties involved beheading the opponent.

Or maybe like skipping and hopscotch, you just grow out of it as you mature .

MARTIN UK - 05 November 2011 01:14 AM

Answerer - 04 November 2011 06:21 PM

SkepticX - 09 October 2011 08:01 AM

TheBrotherMario - 09 October 2011 07:22 AM

... dismissing a deity because of the actions of people in some religion is like dismissing sports because players strike out and teams lose.

Just thought I’d make a note here, because I happened to spot something Mario Brother posted that’s actually rational, even reasonable since I edited out the three-year-old sticking his chest out in defiance of the world pretext.

Usually, people dismiss sports because they think the game is silly.

What do you think the sports equivalent of religion could be??  Mesoamerican volleyball maybe, where penalties involved beheading the opponent.

Or maybe like skipping and hopscotch, you just grow out of it as you mature .

Didn’t they have one already with lions in coliseums, but it got dismissed because because they were always losing?

TheBrotherMario - 09 October 2011 07:22 AM

Catholics have a 2000-year-old history with an iron-clad grip on tradition.

Sorry to interrupt the argument for sake of the original thread theme…..

It’s pretty cool that this movie is coming out.  If nothing else it makes modern atheism more visible.

Much of my family are Jehovah’s (sp?) Witnesses.  Most converted at some point in the last 25 years… I remember being emotionally scarred as a child upon learning that my favorite cousins would no longer be coming to my birthdays or to Christmas, because they no longer believed in it.

I guess experiences like that made it much easier for me to not feel bad about proclaiming my atheism.

It can be problematic at times… I’ve met friends with whom I simply cannot talk religion or politics.  I try not to bring it up at work, because regardless of my feelings on religion, I still need to eat and buy gasoline…

But the more visible atheism is in the mainstream, the better.

TheBrotherMario - 09 October 2011 07:22 AM

So if you want to dismiss the existence of God based upon religious teachings or the thoughts of believers, then you should, in all honesty, look at the whole picture that religions paint, especially when Christianity (which claims that God became a human being) is involved.

LOOKING AT THE WHOLE PICTURE - REALLY?

From what little I’ve read about Greek and Roman gods, they, like the Christian god, had, on occasion, sexual intercourse with a mortal woman and produced a son who was half god and half human - a kind of superman hero who could perform deeds that ordinary humans could not perform.

Do Catholics ever discuss such an event in a modern context?  Consider this conversation between a teenage girl and her parents.

Girl:  I have to tell you something.  Please don’t tell John.  (her fiancee)

Mother:  What is it?  Are you breaking your engagement with John?

Girl:  I’m pregnant.

Father:  What?!!  John promised that . . .

Girl:  (blushing)  It isn’t John.

Father:  What?  (his ears coloring, clenching his fists)  You little slut!  Who is it?

Girl:  (her eyes filling with tears, her voice barely audible)  It was God.

Father:  (enraged, raises a hand as though to strike his daughter)  Dammit!  Don’t fool with us!

Mother:  (puts hand on her husbands chest to keep him away from their daughter - speaks gently)  What happened dear?  Tell us.

Girl:  (crying)  It was dark.  Someone had turned out the lights.  I couldn’t see.  When he withdrew I held him and said, “Who are you?”  He whispered in my ear, “God.”  That’s all I know.  It was that party at Barbara’s place, about three months ago.  I’m so sorry.  Please don’t tell John.”

The next day the parents go to the priest.  He tells them not to worry.  “It is God’s child.  Pray for your daughter.  Help her.”

You say that Catholics use their reason to arrive at their religious convictions.  Do you mean that they discuss how Biblical events may have happened in the day-to-day life of those times?  Do they use their reason to discuss other gods who were intimate with mortal men or women?  Other demigods who were born half human, half god? 

Would you agree that most Christians don’t think about such things, and, in fact, consider it sacrilegious to even think about their god making love with a young woman and making her pregnant?  Isn’t that part of the whole picture?  Does the Bible mention Mary’s parents, or her family’s response to her news that she was impregnated by the Hebrew god because it isn’t important?  Because they just took the news calmly?  Because they just thought it was a normal event?  If Zeus takes a liking to some beautiful earthling . . . well, why shouldn’t Yaweh?  Things like that happen from time to time.  No big deal.  Not something to go into detail about in the Gospels.  It’s not like that Greek tabloid stuff, like the affair of Hero and Leander or what have you.

Avogadro’s number - 09 October 2011 05:45 AM

It’s very difficult for me. My family on both sides are almost entirely Christians in some form or another,(except my wife and 3 kids) very conservative socially and politically, and by and large not very deep thinking nor open minded people.

I rarely state or talk about my non-belief. I am just sort of ‘there’ They all pretty much know what I think, because they have seen the books on my shelves, and they have never heard me say anything about God or Jesus, but it is kind of the 100 pound gorilla in the room that we don’t discuss.

I guess that is why I spend some time here. At least I can find conversation with people with whom I agree.

And even where I work, for Boeing in Southern California, there is very little discussions from anybody about atheism or non-belief. It is a very conservative district. There are several Ministers in my work group actually, and the feelings from most of the people lean towards being religious or just not saying anything negative about it.

Kind of weird actually, and sad, in this day and age.

However I do think this has been an advantage for me in finding my non-belief philosophies in life because I see constantly how believers think and act both overtly and behind the scenes. I hear the bigotted hateful comments and discussions that are privately made, as they seem to forget I am there at times, or they don’t care. I have been around many, many more Christians in my life than Atheists, so i do know what and how the average Christian thinks, regardless of how they portray themselves at times, here and elsewhere.

I suppose I can thank Christianity and it’s converts for making me an Atheist.

I work at Boeing too, in St. Louis. What dept are you in?

I have engaged in religious conversations with a few in my office and when I told them I was an atheist they kind of clam up a bit and don’t really want to discuss it, and just say “well you can believe want you want to believe”. One of the guys I’m really close with (at work), and I asked him if he ever questioned God at all, to which he replied “No”. He said he never thought he should because that’s what he was always told and that so many others believe it, so why shouldn’t he. He is a very narrow minded, stuck in his ways, afraid of change type of guy, a very nice guy nevertheless, but very narrow minded. I try to help him open up his thought process about life in general, but he is so stuck in his ways, I’m not sure if there is any hope for him. He’s around 56 y/o and I think it’s just probably too late for him. Ah well.

On another note, I recently (as of about 4 months ago) posted on my facebook a famous atheist quote, to which my grandmother read and made it a point to yell it out at the next family meeting I saw her at. My mom told me that her and my grandpa were very unhappy about my belief or lack of one if you will. But the funny thing is, I didn’t even know they were religious, and I know for a fact they don’t go to church.  But one good thing that came of all this, is just recently my mother has came to me privately and asked me about my lack of belief which I discussed with her, and she is now questioning God and starting think that there isn’t one.  The real test for me will be at Thanksgiving when my bible thumping cousins are probably itching to discuss this atheism thing with me. I can’t wait!!!