Interesting, and maybe sad, that three quite intelligent people can post so much back and forth and fail to establish any obvious common grounds on which to agree.

samy_73 - 05 October 2011 11:38 AM

Celal - 05 October 2011 08:51 AM

Samy,

I noticed you ran out of cheese to refute the “primitive” verses I posted. You can always use some other Middle Eastern food product to talk about.

You also missed Burt’s point. His point was that long before Muhammad came along “other” civilizations had a grasp of Earth’s shape. That is why Civilizations such as the Babylonians, Egyptians, Chinese, Iranians, and Greeks all had knowledge of Mathematics and understood the calender year and used the solar year in their time calculations and divided it into four quarters of three months each, making twelve months in the year; they determined the quarters by observation of the sun’s varying positions in the sky.

But primitive cultures like the Arabs at the time with insufficient knowledge of mathematics, they were unable to observe the sun accurately, especially given the importance of “moon” in their daily lives, both pre and post Islam. So, they used “Lunar” calender, a simpler method of time measurement by observation of the phases of the moon. So, whilst most civilized people in the World using solar Calender, Islam used Lunar calender, a system the is useless for timing agricultural operations.

Arabs through Islam perpetuated the primitive nature of their culture. As they used lunar calender, and your imaginary Allah in Qur’an mandated observance of ancient Arab lunar calender compulsory.  Let me know if you need help with the verses how Muhammad did that. That is why centuries later,  intellects like Omar Khayyam who was a mathematician, astronomer did not believe Muhammad’‘s message.

You won, Celal
The results just appeared, you are the best
You proved how intelligent, intellectual you are, and what a high ethics you have.
Your religion was the best too. It proved what a great personalities, like you, it can raise up for the humanity. And what amazing services it provided to the science and humanity as well.
You have every requirement, nice and fruitful discussion needs. It was my mistake I couldn’t perceive that.
If you thought I insulted you or your religion, forgive me it wasn’t my goal to do so,
It was fun to talk to you,
Have a nice day

Samy,

My style is direct with you on purpose. I know Islam’s supremacy clause prevents you from reading any criticism of Islam objectively, hence leading to a complete failure of even recognizing that I have no religion, so you could not have insulted it.

Nevertheless, I find familiarity in your reaction and perhaps even a glimmer of hope that the exchange has given you something to think about.

You have a nice day too.