Project Reason is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit foundation devoted to spreading scientific knowledge and secular values in society. The foundation draws on the talents of prominent and creative thinkers in a wide range of disciplines to encourage critical thinking and erode the influence of dogmatism, superstition, and bigotry in our world.
let’s try to discus that, just like fair and wise thinkers as you used to do,
if we find that challenge in a thousands of years old book, any book
What could that mean?
What is special about the fly in the creation process?
What will happen when the fly sucks food, can we get it back?
[73 O mankind! A similitude is coined, so pay ye heed to it: Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from him. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!
74. They measure not Allah His rightful measure. Lo! Allah is Strong, almighty..] the holly quran,Surah 22. Al-Hajj
let’s try to discus that, just like fair and wise thinkers as you used to do,
if we find that challenge in a thousands of years old book, any book
What could that mean?
What is special about the fly in the creation process?
What will happen when the fly sucks food, can we get it back?
[73 O mankind! A similitude is coined, so pay ye heed to it: Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from him. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!
74. They measure not Allah His rightful measure. Lo! Allah is Strong, almighty..] the holly quran,Surah 22. Al-Hajj
Well, I would say that it is a claim that the various other gods worshiped at the time are impotent with respect to creation, which is the sole working of Allah. To take it as anything like a definitive truth requires first that you believe that Allah is the creator. So, if you are going to accept Islam you believe this and give credit for creation of even the meanest of creatures to God. On the other hand, an atheist will say that the fly (and all other living creatures) are the result of an evolutionary process that has operated over something like a billion years, without external source. If you are like a good friend who is both a highly reputable microbiologist and a staunch Catholic, you will attribute the fly (and all other living creatures) to this same evolutionary process, but take that as an indication of God’s frugality. What I mean by the last is found in a Sufi story of a man who was stranded on an island and captured by a Cyclops. This monster took the man into his cave and gave him a bed of straw to spend the night on. Being a careful sort, after the Cyclops went to sleep, the man stuffed some cloth under his blanket and went off to another part of the cave to sleep. Sure enough, later in the night the Cyclops got up, took a big club, and beat the lump under the straw bed repeatedly. Needless to say, the next morning he was very surprised to see the man still alive and well. “Did you notice anything last night?” He asked. “No,” the man said, “It did seem that a fly bothered me at one point though.” The man then mentioned that he was a powerful magician. The Cyclops dragged him out of the cave and pointed to a small stream some 100 meters from the cave mouth. “Use you magic to bring water from the stream here so I won’t have to walk over to it every morning” he commanded. The man went and got a sharp stick and started to dig a trench from the stream to the cave mouth. “What,” said the Cyclops, “use your magic, why work like this?” The man replied: “In magic, as in everything, there are strict laws. I am using the easiest magical means to accomplish this task.”
So, if you are religious, God may have created the pattern of the fly in thought (what the ancient philosophers sometimes called the “intelligible cosmos”) but for that thought to manifest in the imperfect medium of matter has taken some time and process.
I’ll borrow Sara’s old symbol “friendly what ever happen” I hope you to have it too. While all trade mark rights are preserved to here.
burt - 29 September 2011 03:23 PM
samy_73 - 29 September 2011 01:35 PM
let’s try to discus that, just like fair and wise thinkers as you used to do,
if we find that challenge in a thousands of years old book, any book
What could that mean?
What is special about the fly in the creation process?
What will happen when the fly sucks food, can we get it back?
[73 O mankind! A similitude is coined, so pay ye heed to it: Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from him. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!
74. They measure not Allah His rightful measure. Lo! Allah is Strong, almighty..] the holly quran,Surah 22. Al-Hajj
Well, I would say that it is a claim that the various other gods worshiped at the time are impotent with respect to creation, which is the sole working of Allah. To take it as anything like a definitive truth requires first that you believe that Allah is the creator. So, if you are going to accept Islam you believe this and give credit for creation of even the meanest of creatures to God. On the other hand, an atheist will say that the fly (and all other living creatures) are the result of an evolutionary process that has operated over something like a billion years, without external source. If you are like a good friend who is both a highly reputable microbiologist and a staunch Catholic, you will attribute the fly (and all other living creatures) to this same evolutionary process, but take that as an indication of God’s frugality. What I mean by the last is found in a Sufi story of a man who was stranded on an island and captured by a Cyclops. This monster took the man into his cave and gave him a bed of straw to spend the night on. Being a careful sort, after the Cyclops went to sleep, the man stuffed some cloth under his blanket and went off to another part of the cave to sleep. Sure enough, later in the night the Cyclops got up, took a big club, and beat the lump under the straw bed repeatedly. Needless to say, the next morning he was very surprised to see the man still alive and well. “Did you notice anything last night?” He asked. “No,” the man said, “It did seem that a fly bothered me at one point though.” The man then mentioned that he was a powerful magician.
Although, that’s good story but it’s not applicable in our case.
The 1st part: The story relates the “strange phenomena” to an acceptable known deception action of the man, while for a desert man to challenge the people that they will not be able to create a fly, where is the deception in this part?. Unless you mean the Moslems who added this verse in the last centaury after knowing how useful the fly is the genome project and who easy to be simulated, and that’s very far from the troth.
If I were a non-Moslem I would relate this to the “Luck”, mere luck, Mohammad wanted to show how powerful “his god” is, so he challenged his people to create a fly. And so they will see how weak they are. And why he chose “the fly” as an example not the “mosquito” or “pug” or “ant”, it was another mere luck, because it was the insect that was irritating him at the time. If the mosquito what was flying around him, he mostly would mention it. Although that will raise the question, how lucky this man is. So far, for me as a non Moslem I may be satisfied with that “lucky man”!!!, That’s very good for now, he had what he wanted. He had those guys speechless now.
Why to add this statement “And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from him”. What is this? That’s not true, we have very precise and accurate devices now, we can monitor a fly while eating and we can get back what it had eaten!!!
Yes we can, but what is this? What we have rescued? It’s not the same food we had, it’s another thing, it had been digested.
The fly have a very strange digestive system, I just saw this now, http://insects.about.com/od/morphology/ss/internalanatomy_3.htm
Where it surround the selected food with it’s “some thing like lips”, then it pour the “saliva” through “The salivary glands tube” to be mixed to the food and digest it, and so it can sucks it through the foregut tube to the alimentary canal for further processing.
For me, as a non-Moslem, another good luck. This man had the best luck within the good luck persons at the time and to the end of the previous century where no one had these lucky creation info before.
What if that man had the same luck in many other science fields, cosmology, embryology, winds and clouds, mountains formation and functions, …..etc. He told many, many right information that never been known before him and for centuries after him, although he was illiterate and born and live in a very illiterate town and nation.
The Cyclops dragged him out of the cave and pointed to a small stream some 100 meters from the cave mouth. “Use you magic to bring water from the stream here so I won’t have to walk over to it every morning” he commanded. The man went and got a sharp stick and started to dig a trench from the stream to the cave mouth. “What,” said the Cyclops, “use your magic, why work like this?” The man replied: “In magic, as in everything, there are strict laws. I am using the easiest magical means to accomplish this task.”
The 2nd part: I understand it like that, it will be more convincing if the god came down and held a show how he did create every thing, and specially the fly? Which will never happen for many reasons, we can discuss later.
This specific part is more applicable for those who claim that creation is easy. We got it, we know every thing about creation. Then win the challenge and create a fly. Create a single cell in a fly even in Mega scale. Create a life cell in any species you like. Return the life to a recent died species/cell.
At that time the religious, mostly the religious guys will know the troth,
So, if you are religious, God may have created the pattern of the fly in thought (what the ancient philosophers sometimes called the “intelligible cosmos”) but for that thought to manifest in the imperfect medium of matter has taken some time and process.
Neither you nor I can force the god to send the proofs that I/you like, or see as more convincing. We can’t force the god to play in our playground and subjected to our laws. In my little opinion we have to see, with open mind, what the god claimed to have as a proof, and discuss it fairly and give fair conclusions what ever it was.
Neither you nor I can force the god to send the proofs that I/you like, or see as more convincing. We can’t force the god to play in our playground and subjected to our laws. In my little opinion we have to see, with open mind, what the god claimed to have as a proof, and discuss it fairly and give fair conclusions what ever it was.
This is why men, in this case Muslims, make up the answers to suit their imagination. It doesn’t matter that the explanations or the verses are completely illogical.
Example:
” O MEN, FEAR your Lord who created you from a single cell, and from it created its mate, and from the two of them dispersed men and women (male and female) in multitudes. So fear God in whose name you ask of one another (the bond of) relationships. God surely keeps watch over you.” Quran 4:1
Samy, THINK. You don’t even know what a “cell” is unless you majored in biology, never mind the ignorant Arabs in the 7th Century, after having heard Mohammed saying, “Man was created from a single cell!” , they never even asked, “What the heck is a cell?” Did Muhammad even know what a “cell” was?
So, today people like you when reading the Qur’an, just make up meanings. That is why you have such different variations in the interpretations of Qur’an amongst Muslims. Arabs or non-Arabs.
Neither you nor I can force the god to send the proofs that I/you like, or see as more convincing. We can’t force the god to play in our playground and subjected to our laws. In my little opinion we have to see, with open mind, what the god claimed to have as a proof, and discuss it fairly and give fair conclusions what ever it was.
This is why men, in this case Muslims, make up the answers to suit their imagination. It doesn’t matter that the explanations or the verses are completely illogical.
Example:
” O MEN, FEAR your Lord who created you from a single cell, and from it created its mate, and from the two of them dispersed men and women (male and female) in multitudes. So fear God in whose name you ask of one another (the bond of) relationships. God surely keeps watch over you.” Quran 4:1
Samy, THINK. You don’t even know what a “cell” is unless you majored in biology, never mind the ignorant Arabs in the 7th Century, after having heard Mohammed saying, “Man was created from a single cell!” , they never even asked, “What the heck is a cell?” Did Muhammad even know what a “cell” was?
So, today people like you when reading the Qur’an, just make up meanings. That is why you have such different variations in the interpretations of Qur’an amongst Muslims. Arabs or non-Arabs.
i’m 100% with you this time Celal, if th e Quran told so, then it’s unlogic, unfair and bad and you have the right to be ,exactly, as you are (which i’m not sure about),
while for, your bad luck, this is not from the Quran. some one for a reason or another decide to ““mishonestly”” translate it, while her is the right translations for you, ” not this time” since it’s not the first time to do this !!!
i like you to try to find the right translation and then we can discuss what you claims!!!
and just for me, plz, jot down the sourse of the translation, next time
But that is really irrelevant. Same verse is translated differently by different people.
YUSUFALI: O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, ...
PICKTHAL: O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul ...
SHAKIR: O people! be careful of (your duty to) your Lord, Who created you from a single being...
In addition to being created from “cell”, man is created from a single person, single soul, and a single being. But there are other versions, still. I generally use Yusuf Ali, as it is most widely used Worldwide.
Ahmed Ali provides a glimpse into the absurdity of Qur’an, because he also goes ahead and says the following
For God the likeness of Jesus is as that of Adam whom He fashioned out of dust ... Quran 3:59
Man He created from a drop of semen; and still he becomes an open contender. ... Quran 16:4
Created man from an embryo; Quran 96:2
Anyway, the point is no matter whose translation you use, you cant keep the story straight. Because it is all bunch of nonsense. You cant reform a lie.
I’ll borrow Sara’s old symbol “friendly what ever happen” I hope you to have it too. While all trade mark rights are preserved to here.
burt - 29 September 2011 03:23 PM
samy_73 - 29 September 2011 01:35 PM
let’s try to discus that, just like fair and wise thinkers as you used to do,
if we find that challenge in a thousands of years old book, any book
What could that mean?
What is special about the fly in the creation process?
What will happen when the fly sucks food, can we get it back?
[73 O mankind! A similitude is coined, so pay ye heed to it: Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from him. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!
74. They measure not Allah His rightful measure. Lo! Allah is Strong, almighty..] the holly quran,Surah 22. Al-Hajj
Well, I would say that it is a claim that the various other gods worshiped at the time are impotent with respect to creation, which is the sole working of Allah. To take it as anything like a definitive truth requires first that you believe that Allah is the creator. So, if you are going to accept Islam you believe this and give credit for creation of even the meanest of creatures to God. On the other hand, an atheist will say that the fly (and all other living creatures) are the result of an evolutionary process that has operated over something like a billion years, without external source. If you are like a good friend who is both a highly reputable microbiologist and a staunch Catholic, you will attribute the fly (and all other living creatures) to this same evolutionary process, but take that as an indication of God’s frugality. What I mean by the last is found in a Sufi story of a man who was stranded on an island and captured by a Cyclops. This monster took the man into his cave and gave him a bed of straw to spend the night on. Being a careful sort, after the Cyclops went to sleep, the man stuffed some cloth under his blanket and went off to another part of the cave to sleep. Sure enough, later in the night the Cyclops got up, took a big club, and beat the lump under the straw bed repeatedly. Needless to say, the next morning he was very surprised to see the man still alive and well. “Did you notice anything last night?” He asked. “No,” the man said, “It did seem that a fly bothered me at one point though.” The man then mentioned that he was a powerful magician.
Although, that’s good story but it’s not applicable in our case.
The 1st part: The story relates the “strange phenomena” to an acceptable known deception action of the man, while for a desert man to challenge the people that they will not be able to create a fly, where is the deception in this part?. Unless you mean the Moslems who added this verse in the last centaury after knowing how useful the fly is the genome project and who easy to be simulated, and that’s very far from the troth.
If I were a non-Moslem I would relate this to the “Luck”, mere luck, Mohammad wanted to show how powerful “his god” is, so he challenged his people to create a fly. And so they will see how weak they are. And why he chose “the fly” as an example not the “mosquito” or “pug” or “ant”, it was another mere luck, because it was the insect that was irritating him at the time. If the mosquito what was flying around him, he mostly would mention it. Although that will raise the question, how lucky this man is. So far, for me as a non Moslem I may be satisfied with that “lucky man”!!!, That’s very good for now, he had what he wanted. He had those guys speechless now.
Why to add this statement “And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from him”. What is this? That’s not true, we have very precise and accurate devices now, we can monitor a fly while eating and we can get back what it had eaten!!!
Yes we can, but what is this? What we have rescued? It’s not the same food we had, it’s another thing, it had been digested.
The fly have a very strange digestive system, I just saw this now, http://insects.about.com/od/morphology/ss/internalanatomy_3.htm
Where it surround the selected food with it’s “some thing like lips”, then it pour the “saliva” through “The salivary glands tube” to be mixed to the food and digest it, and so it can sucks it through the foregut tube to the alimentary canal for further processing.
For me, as a non-Moslem, another good luck. This man had the best luck within the good luck persons at the time and to the end of the previous century where no one had these lucky creation info before.
What if that man had the same luck in many other science fields, cosmology, embryology, winds and clouds, mountains formation and functions, …..etc. He told many, many right information that never been known before him and for centuries after him, although he was illiterate and born and live in a very illiterate town and nation.
The Cyclops dragged him out of the cave and pointed to a small stream some 100 meters from the cave mouth. “Use you magic to bring water from the stream here so I won’t have to walk over to it every morning” he commanded. The man went and got a sharp stick and started to dig a trench from the stream to the cave mouth. “What,” said the Cyclops, “use your magic, why work like this?” The man replied: “In magic, as in everything, there are strict laws. I am using the easiest magical means to accomplish this task.”
The 2nd part: I understand it like that, it will be more convincing if the god came down and held a show how he did create every thing, and specially the fly? Which will never happen for many reasons, we can discuss later.
This specific part is more applicable for those who claim that creation is easy. We got it, we know every thing about creation. Then win the challenge and create a fly. Create a single cell in a fly even in Mega scale. Create a life cell in any species you like. Return the life to a recent died species/cell.
At that time the religious, mostly the religious guys will know the troth,
So, if you are religious, God may have created the pattern of the fly in thought (what the ancient philosophers sometimes called the “intelligible cosmos”) but for that thought to manifest in the imperfect medium of matter has taken some time and process.
Neither you nor I can force the god to send the proofs that I/you like, or see as more convincing. We can’t force the god to play in our playground and subjected to our laws. In my little opinion we have to see, with open mind, what the god claimed to have as a proof, and discuss it fairly and give fair conclusions what ever it was.
Have a nice day and peaceful night
You missed my point Samy, the story I gave wasn’t a comment on the verse, it was to illustrate the way that religious people often harmonize their religious beliefs with the scientific facts of evolution. The first part of the story wasn’t related to the quote you gave, I wasn’t suggesting that deception was involved, that was only the set up for the second part of the story which illustrates that all things have their own time and form of development. The other point I made was that you have to already believe in God before you can accept claims made in religious texts as proofs of God’s existence (it’s a circular argument - that’s why for religion it really is a matter of faith rather than reason).
But that is really irrelevant. Same verse is translated differently by different people.
YUSUFALI: O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, ...
PICKTHAL: O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul ...
SHAKIR: O people! be careful of (your duty to) your Lord, Who created you from a single being...
In addition to being created from “cell”, man is created from a single person, single soul, and a single being. But there are other versions, still. I generally use Yusuf Ali, as it is most widely used Worldwide.
Ahmed Ali provides a glimpse into the absurdity of Qur’an, because he also goes ahead and says the following
For God the likeness of Jesus is as that of Adam whom He fashioned out of dust ... Quran 3:59
Man He created from a drop of semen; and still he becomes an open contender. ... Quran 16:4
Created man from an embryo; Quran 96:2
Anyway, the point is no matter whose translation you use, you cant keep the story straight. Because it is all bunch of nonsense. You cant reform a lie.
Yes, you are absolutely right my dear friend, No one can reform a lie!! And the one who is responsible to judge if it’s a lie or a miracle will be the most professional in such field, the professors in embryology, not any other non-professional person.
And that reminded me with a nice story, when a cheese merchant visited Cairo and saw the pyramids, for the first time, he said “what a great Cheese Triangles” sure the pharaohs liked the cheese too much. When the tour guide “the professional” tried to correct the man, he didn’t give him a chance and continued jumping to further conclusions, and sure they, the pharaohs, were giants to eat these cheese, and….the guide couldn’t withstand more incorrect conclusions, he shouted at the man these aren’t cheese they are “the pyramids” the man felt sorry and said thank you, you saved me. I learned the lesson; I won’t jump to incorrect conclusions again before asking the professionals, politely. ….. The end
I hope my English will not make it more difficult for you,
The creator of the human being described the creation process, in the Holy Quran, in two main ways,
The 1st is the procedures and different phases of creating the prototype, the first model, Adam (p)
The 2nd is the procedures and the different stages and phases of creating the whole people out of the lineage of Adamand Eve, Except for the great prophet Essa the Messiah (p).
In the second, I’ll shut my mouth while I’ll let embryology professors to talk,
Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages. This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person. Dr. Keith Moore is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy. In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences. http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a.htm
In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said: “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlhfrSTNwQ
Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question: “Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the word of God?” He replied: “I find no difficulty in accepting this.”
You saw it as lie, While, as far as I know, that converted many great scientists to Islam, who is the wrong, do you think??
I’ll add a small comment, what is the problem when describing the human is created out of sperms منى, sperm fluid ماء مهين, woman oval’s egg, single cell, clot نطفة, leach علقة, chewed substance مضغة, bones عظام , flesh لحم.
All are right; all are applicable in different stages and phases.
You still think it was a cheese, I mean a lie!!!
Case study for you, if you like.
As a fair person, mention the different stages and phases that the creation of Adam path through? And tell if that seems to be a lie or a miracle?
You missed my point Samy, the story I gave wasn’t a comment on the verse, it was to illustrate the way that religious people often harmonize their religious beliefs with the scientific facts of evolution.
sorry about that, while what you mentioned could be true in case if i invent that verse tow days ago. while this verse had been revealed 1400 years ago. before any person think to think about evolution. me as Moslem i feel shame about my self and my people, how we are so late in the science way, although we weren’t like that and suppose not. but that’s the reality.
second i don’t claim or dare to claim special honor when find a miraculous verse in the Quran. it’s belong to Allah and he is the god of all of his creations me and you. i felt like i have to transfer what i thought as a massege from the god to all the humanity, while i’m nothing in such issue.
The first part of the story wasn’t related to the quote you gave, I wasn’t suggesting that deception was involved,
plz read it and tell me how this man had the appility to say that 1400 years ago?
if i’m a non-moslem i may say it was a mere luck or to say it’s amazing, i wonna know your opinion,
that was only the set up for the second part of the story which illustrates that all things have their own time and form of development. The other point I made was that you have to already believe in God before you can accept claims made in religious texts as proofs of God’s existence (it’s a circular argument - that’s why for religion it really is a matter of faith rather than reason).
forgut about me, there are many others whom where not Moslems and were amazed by these verses and many of them decided to try to be a Moslem,
Dr. Maurice Bucaille, converted to Islam when he discovered that the PHaraoh of moses died in the sea, and that was excactly what Islam told 1400 years ago. while the other holy books told nothing about that!!!!!! only that one small info, how this guy knew about that? no earthly answer
In the second, I’ll shut my mouth while I’ll let embryology professors to talk,
Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages. This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person. Dr. Keith Moore is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy. In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences. http://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-a.htm
In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said: “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPlhfrSTNwQ
Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question: “Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the word of God?” He replied: “I find no difficulty in accepting this.”
Just two things: (1) it’s not either/or (i.e., there are other possibilities than just “lie” and “miracle”); (2) You often give arguments from authority. While this is a valid way of arguing in religious debate, it doesn’t work so well in rational debate about religion because what one person believes about religion, no matter what their expertise, doesn’t carry weight in logical terms.
You missed my point Samy, the story I gave wasn’t a comment on the verse, it was to illustrate the way that religious people often harmonize their religious beliefs with the scientific facts of evolution.
sorry about that, while what you mentioned could be true in case if i invent that verse tow days ago. while this verse had been revealed 1400 years ago. before any person think to think about evolution. me as Moslem i feel shame about my self and my people, how we are so late in the science way, although we weren’t like that and suppose not. but that’s the reality.
second i don’t claim or dare to claim special honor when find a miraculous verse in the Quran. it’s belong to Allah and he is the god of all of his creations me and you. i felt like i have to transfer what i thought as a massege from the god to all the humanity, while i’m nothing in such issue.
The first part of the story wasn’t related to the quote you gave, I wasn’t suggesting that deception was involved,
plz read it and tell me how this man had the appility to say that 1400 years ago?
if i’m a non-moslem i may say it was a mere luck or to say it’s amazing, i wonna know your opinion,
that was only the set up for the second part of the story which illustrates that all things have their own time and form of development. The other point I made was that you have to already believe in God before you can accept claims made in religious texts as proofs of God’s existence (it’s a circular argument - that’s why for religion it really is a matter of faith rather than reason).
forgut about me, there are many others whom where not Moslems and were amazed by these verses and many of them decided to try to be a Moslem,
Dr. Maurice Bucaille, converted to Islam when he discovered that the PHaraoh of moses died in the sea, and that was excactly what Islam told 1400 years ago. while the other holy books told nothing about that!!!!!! only that one small info, how this guy knew about that? no earthly answer
plz, don’t answer that if you don’t like it
It’s not a matter of whether I like it or not, it’s a matter of what is convincing evidence. You are convinced by the ability of people to interpret quotations from the Quran as predictions or indications of knowledge that could not have been otherwise available at the time. I am not similarly convinced. I leave it up to each individual to decide what they will accept in such matters.
It’s not a matter of whether I like it or not, it’s a matter of what is convincing evidence. You are convinced by the ability of people to interpret quotations from the Quran as predictions or indications of knowledge that could not have been otherwise available at the time. I am not similarly convinced. I leave it up to each individual to decide what they will accept in such matters.
thanks, burt
that’s fair enogh,
each individual have the right to decide what they will accept in such matters,
It’s not a matter of whether I like it or not, it’s a matter of what is convincing evidence. You are convinced by the ability of people to interpret quotations from the Quran as predictions or indications of knowledge that could not have been otherwise available at the time. I am not similarly convinced. I leave it up to each individual to decide what they will accept in such matters.
thanks, burt
that’s fair enogh,
each individual have the right to decide what they will accept in such matters,
You must be the new messenger of Allah with an updated message. Hurry and get your message out to your fellow Muslims Worldwide.
The Qur’an on Mountains:
A book entitled “Earth” is a basic reference textbook in many universities around the world. One of its two authors is Professor Emeritus Frank Press. He was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter, and for 12 years was the President of the National Academy of Sciences, Washington, DC. His book says that mountains have underlying roots. These roots are deeply embedded in the ground, thus, mountains have a shape like a peg.. This is how the Qur’an has described mountains. God has said in the Qur’an:
أَلَمْ نَجْعَلِ الْأَرْضَ مِهَادًا {6} وَالْجِبَالَ أَوْتَادًا {7} سورة النبأ
_ Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? _ (Qur’an, 78:6-7)
Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in 1865 by the Astronomer Royal, Sir George Airy. Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth. They hinder the shaking of the earth. God has said in the Qur’an:
_ And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you… _ (Qur’an, 16:15)
Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s.
Could anyone during the time of the Prophet Muhammad _ have known of the true shape of mountains? Could anyone imagine that the solid massive mountain extends deep into the earth and has a root, as scientists affirm? Could anyone had any idea about the main function of the mountains?
Modern geology has confirmed the truth of the Qur’anic verses.
Or Mohammad could be a lucky guesser in Geology as he was in Embryology and Creation !!
Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? _ (Qur’an, 78:6-7)
And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you… _ (Qur’an, 16:15)
Samy, this is the famous “flat earth” from Quran.
Quran: 78-6
YUSUFALI: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,
PICKTHAL: Have We not made the earth an expanse,
SHAKIR: Have We not made the earth an even expanse?
AHMED ALI: Did We not make the earth a spreading,
The word used in the Arabic text is “flat land , flat , plain”
Muhammad thought Earth was flat and mountains kept it from shaking. No matter how you spin it, lie is a lie is a lie is a lie…..
Incidentally, this is why Muslims are so powerless. Islam kept them uneducated and ignorant. 12-14 Million Jews Worldwide can produce infinitely more influence in this World than 1.5 Billion Muslims on intellectual playground. Why? Because they believe in education. You believe in nonsense.
Albert Einstein, the most influential scientist was a Jew. Sigmund Freud a Jew. Benjamin Rubin gave humanity the vaccinating needle. Jonas Salk developed the first polio vaccine. Albert Sabin developed the improved live polio vaccine. Gertrude Elion gave us a leukemia-fighting drug. Baruch Blumberg developed the vaccination for Hepatitis B. Paul Ehrlich discovered a treatment for syphilis (a sexually transmitted disease). Elie Metchnikoff won a Nobel Prize in infectious diseases. Bernard Katz won a Nobel Prize in neuromuscular transmission. Andrew Schally won a Nobel in endocrinology (disorders of the endocrine system; diabetes, hyperthyroidism). Aaron Beck founded Cognitive Therapy (psychotherapy to treat mental disorders, depression and phobias). Gregory Pincus developed the first oral contraceptive pill. George Wald won a Nobel for furthering our understanding of the human eye. Stanley Cohen won a Nobel in embryology (study of embryos and their development). Willem Kolff came up with the kidney dialysis machine…..
You guys have perfected the art of plane hijackings, restaurant bombings, civilian bus attacks, Jihad suicides/homicides, drive-by shootings, throat-slittings, roadside IEDs, embassy attacks and other such acts of barbarisms. Lovely!
