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Project for Sam - Debate the Objectivists
Posted: 30 August 2011 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Antisocialdarwinist - 30 August 2011 12:38 PM
eucaryote - 30 August 2011 12:27 PM

Sure ASD, but he only said that stoning “pinged” his values. He didn’t really say that he gives a shit. Ping must be another word for indifferent.

I disagree. He said:

buybuydandavis - 29 August 2011 10:27 PM

I generally disapprove of stoning adulteresses, and would discourage the practice, and encourage and applaud active and violent measures taken against the perpetrators, and condemnation for those who approve of the practice.

That doesn’t strike me as indifference.

To “generally disapprove of stoning” is pretty indifferent. I wonder under what circumstances he might deviate from his “general disapproval’? I don’t see any reason why he would care.

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Posted: 30 August 2011 03:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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buybuydandavis - 30 August 2011 01:58 PM
Antisocialdarwinist - 30 August 2011 12:38 PM
buybuydandavis - 29 August 2011 10:27 PM

I generally disapprove of stoning adulteresses, and would discourage the practice, and encourage and applaud active and violent measures taken against the perpetrators, and condemnation for those who approve of the practice.

That doesn’t strike me as indifference.

I don’t see how it would strike anyone with a shred of honesty or reading comprehension as indifferent.

Allowing the benefit of the doubt, maybe not. “Generally” being the key word, it’s what I comprehended too. But the following adds to it, it certainly calls into question your honesty which you are quick to question in others and perhaps are misinterpreting in yourself.

buybuydandavis - 30 August 2011 01:58 PM

Yes, disapproval is still a cost, but it is a cost you can rationally assess and balance, you are no longer an infant abjectly dependent on Mommy and Daddy, and so no longer in mortal danger should you lose their approval. This peculiar sense of amorphous compulsion can be overcome. Overcoming it for yourself, you also cease to see others as compelled slaves, who “must” or “should” follow some cause alien to their own. We are free to choose.

I don’t have to care about the poor woman being stoned, I’m not required to, but I do. Maybe I’ll stop caring someday, maybe you could convince me to stop caring, but you’d have to do that based on other things that I value more.

This goes beyond the case of generally understood cognitive dissonance (eg, where your values conflict with the situation thereby causing such degree of anxiety that to relieve it, you must change your values or change the situation). To simply reduce the notion of your stated concern to a calculated intellectual exercise of given weight to an unspecified enticement or benefit of self-interest is disingenuous to say the least. Also, your “I’m OK, You’re OK” analysis and seemingly obsession with the presumption of “slavery” for those who may equate self/others-interests as mutual, in my mind, does not bring the “Adult” phase in the Parent/Child/Adult paradigm to mind, again bringing to question that some personality characteristic may be driving your perspective. I’m no expert, maybe Dennis would have some insight. I just have a hard time figuring out your kind of thought pattern. Hey, but it takes all kinds.

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Posted: 30 August 2011 07:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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eucaryote - 30 August 2011 02:32 PM
Antisocialdarwinist - 30 August 2011 12:38 PM
eucaryote - 30 August 2011 12:27 PM

Sure ASD, but he only said that stoning “pinged” his values. He didn’t really say that he gives a shit. Ping must be another word for indifferent.

I disagree. He said:

buybuydandavis - 29 August 2011 10:27 PM

I generally disapprove of stoning adulteresses, and would discourage the practice, and encourage and applaud active and violent measures taken against the perpetrators, and condemnation for those who approve of the practice.

That doesn’t strike me as indifference.

To “generally disapprove of stoning” is pretty indifferent. I wonder under what circumstances he might deviate from his “general disapproval’? I don’t see any reason why he would care.

Maybe indifferent was a poor choice of words, maybe “detached” would be better. I still wonder, under what circumstances would buybuyetc “generally approve” of stoning?
I think he wants to leave his options open just in case he needs to suck up to some alien grand inquisitioner. If the market is right, his mom is up for sale.
Worm-tongue I say. Beware this noise.

[ Edited: 30 August 2011 07:56 PM by eucaryote ]
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