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Speechie - 06 August 2011 10:01 AM

In the hierarchy of things that we need to worry about in the world, is religion really that high on the list? .

In the grand scheme of things, religion is so massively unimportant that it defies description.  Sam Harris got paranoid after 9’11, and so Project Reason was born.  Religion has always existed and will always exist because people are scared of dying and need to believe their life has absolute purpose and structure.

Speechie - 06 August 2011 10:01 AM

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2. Without religion, how do you define morality?

This, I imagine, has been bandied about quite a bit, so I apologize for charging in as a newbie with what might be an already overdone question. Still, though, I can’t help but be curious. Obviously you can’t use strict logic alone to define morality, I think we can all imagine some horrific scenarios if we follow that line of thinking to it’s conclusion. Being “good” is not about doing what is entirely logical, it’s often about doing things just because they’re considered “right”. What criteria would one use for “right” in the absence of religion?

No one needs to use their imagination, but only to historically recall extensive torture carried out by former members of your religion. It makes waterboarding seem like a day in the park.

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Speechie - 06 August 2011 10:01 AM

1. If your intent is to benefit mankind, is attacking religion really the best way to go about it?

Is there a bigger delusion of ignorance and superstition that drives peoples actions?

2. Without religion, how do you define morality?

Morality = the consensus of personal preferences of a group = moral relativism.

3. How do people cope without religion?

With reality.

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Speechie, most people came to this website and found a home because they are “personality” atheists, i.e., they became turned off from religion because of a negative personal experience in some religion, a desire to freely exercise their lifestyle choices without any outside restrictions, or a pride in their own intellects.

The few people here who actually “believe” that secularism is the saviour of humanity have failed miserably to come up with ideas that bolster this claim. Of course, this is because secularism and human selfishness are overwhelmingly the cause of every problem humanity has faced throughout history. These people cannot rationally come to an understanding that the human mind, when left to itself without a moral foundation, inevitably creates devastating consequences.

Sam Harris thinks he has solved this problem with secularism by calling the atheistic and materialistic horrors of history “religion-like”. He, too, is failing miserably in attracting any attention, accept for a bunch of cohorts, or arriving at profound answers to humanity’s problems. His latest “profundity” is to educate humanity at how drugs are inevitable coping mechanisms, so they should be promoted and governed closely. Basically, he’s a nutcase, as are most of the posters here. So you best leave such people to fade away into the darkness in which they crawled out of. When they finally do suffer a great loss or face their own mortality they will ultimately pull a John Wayne, who was a life-long atheist until the end came.

Besides, saying the words “I am an atheist” is like saying the words “I am a Caucasian”, for we are what we are despite what we think we are or what words we choose to describe ourselves.

Project Reason is not filled with actual evil-thinking/doing atheists, but stubborn intellectuals who think they are what they think they are, and truth is what they think it is. It’s all a bit silly and not at all in the forefront of human importance. And the fact that the posters here do not even have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge the beneficial place in human history that religion resides, while harping ad nauseum on religion’s occasional pitfalls, shows how Project Reason is not even a true intellectual endeavor, but an agenda-driven lap dog of disgruntled people who are cynics posing as skeptics.

As someone who has been here for years, I can tell you that you will not find a single honest response to simple truths about religion or deep spiritual truths, for the world reigns supreme here. If you have thick-skin and time to waste, stick around for awhile to see how the other half “think” they live.

Greetings Mr. Chie.

Now that you have heard some choice gibberish from our resident asshole and current holder of the dunk tank chair, you may see what fuels our fire.

TheBrotherMario - 07 August 2011 08:32 AM

As someone who has been here for years…

Your joined date is Feb 2, 2011.  Also, stop speaking as if you understand anything the rest of us here think or feel.  You don’t.

This specimen has appeared in other jars.

Speechie - 06 August 2011 10:01 AM

If your children are killed in a car crash and you are firm in the belief that they are dead, gone, and exist in no way shape or form anywhere in the universe - what does that leave you? That’s not an argument to say “see, religion must be correct!”, obviously, just a question in general. It seems like a pretty bleak world.

In the August 8, 2011 issue of The New Yorker Magazine, Stephen Greenblatt writes about the rediscovery of the epic poem by Lucretius, ‘On the Nature of Things’.  Greenblatt writes:

“There are moments, rare and powerful, in which a writer, long vanished, seems to stand in your presence and speak to you directly, as if he bore a message meant for you above all other.  When I first read “On the Nature of Things,” it struck such a chord within me.  The core of Lucretius’ poem is a profound, therapeutic meditation on the fear of death . . . ”  (end quote)

Take a few minutes to read the abstract of the article here:  http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_greenblatt

If you’re able to get hold of this issue of the New Yorker and read the complete article, I think it will help illuminate many of the things that are discussed on the Project Reason.

Imagine this world being bleak unless you were guaranteed eternal life!  This has been called ‘another form of greed’.  (all these wonderful things are bleak unless I can have them forever!”

Hey, Nhoj, are you going to edit “asshole” out of your post as RUDE, or ride your hypocritical horse into the sunset of truth that dawns every one of your days?

You gnash your teeth at my posts in the same way the contemporaries of Jesus did when they heard him speak. And then they had him murdered. And then he changed human history.

Where are they? How did their personal lives inspire human history? How many people today, Sunday, will seek out the words of Caiaphas or Pontius Pilate for instruction and comfort?

In the same way, your words will be added to the dung (you gonna edit it again?) heap of history, while mine will be added to the Lord’s litany.

Sciguy, no, I’ve been here for years before that. Got banned, twice, then returned. It seems I know more about you than you do about me.

unsmoked - 07 August 2011 09:25 AM

Speechie - 06 August 2011 10:01 AM

If your children are killed in a car crash and you are firm in the belief that they are dead, gone, and exist in no way shape or form anywhere in the universe - what does that leave you? That’s not an argument to say “see, religion must be correct!”, obviously, just a question in general. It seems like a pretty bleak world.

Imagine this world being bleak unless you were guaranteed eternal life!  This has been called ‘another form of greed’.  (all these wonderful things are bleak unless I can have them forever!”

Imagine a flower being bleak unless you were guaranteed that it would never fall off the vine.  Imagine your beloved wife or soulmate being bleak unless you were convinced you could have her forever.

TheBrotherMario - 07 August 2011 09:36 AM

Sciguy, no, I’ve been here for years before that. Got banned, twice, then returned.

Twice and still can’t take a hint?

TheBrotherMario - 07 August 2011 09:36 AM

It seems I know more about you than you do about me.

Not sure how you get that.  Just because I didn’t know you had been banned before doesn’t increase your knowledge about me at all.  We both know very little about the other, which is fine with me.

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