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My nephew and his wife live next door and they have some ear shattering fights that force me to trot over to their house to calm things down. If they didn’t have three children, I wouldn’t care, but, as it is, I feel obligated to respond, if only to take the kids over to my house.
Yesterday, I spent two hours “counseling” the husband. I’ve learned, through experience, that criticism isn’t useful at all. I usually try to appeal to his better nature and, since he believes in God, I meander into topics such as free will and the purpose and meaning of life and what sacrifices he should make for the love of his children. For a brief time, please try to look at this from a psychological perspective rather than an atheistic one. I’m not trying to push theology, I’m trying to inspire him to examine himself and his behavior and I’m using his values, which are expressed in his religion, to do this. He has been to see a priest, but, the priest apparently berated him and my nephew walked out. I doubt this is an accurate description of the event, but, the meeting certainly wasn’t successful.
Anyway, the main difficulty I encountered with my two hour session with my nephew was that, aside from his self-justification and rationalizations, he unquestioning assumption that he “knows himself” much more clearly than everyone else. He presumes this because he listens to a lot of self-help tapes and meditates. Without criticizing, I pointed out that human beings are notoriously blind to their own failings, but, although he nodded agreement, I’m quite sure that he is convinced that he is the exception.
My question is….is there any way to “awaken” others and if so, what might be some effective strategies to use? My instincts tell me that I’m wasting my time and that life itself will teach him….or not. Better to concentrate my energies on the kids…ages 7 9 12.
I can’t help wondering how blind I am to myself. Am I just like my nephew? That CAN’T be true….or can it?
My nephew and his wife live next door and they have some ear shattering fights that force me to trot over to their house to calm things down. If they didn’t have three children, I wouldn’t care, but, as it is, I feel obligated to respond, if only to take the kids over to my house.
Yesterday, I spent two hours “counseling” the husband. I’ve learned, through experience, that criticism isn’t useful at all. I usually try to appeal to his better nature and, since he believes in God, I meander into topics such as free will and the purpose and meaning of life and what sacrifices he should make for the love of his children. For a brief time, please try to look at this from a psychological perspective rather than an atheistic one. I’m not trying to push theology, I’m trying to inspire him to examine himself and his behavior and I’m using his values, which are expressed in his religion, to do this. He has been to see a priest, but, the priest apparently berated him and my nephew walked out. I doubt this is an accurate description of the event, but, the meeting certainly wasn’t successful.
Anyway, the main difficulty I encountered with my two hour session with my nephew was that, aside from his self-justification and rationalizations, he unquestioning assumption that he “knows himself” much more clearly than everyone else. He presumes this because he listens to a lot of self-help tapes and meditates. Without criticizing, I pointed out that human beings are notoriously blind to their own failings, but, although he nodded agreement, I’m quite sure that he is convinced that he is the exception.
My question is….is there any way to “awaken” others and if so, what might be some effective strategies to use? My instincts tell me that I’m wasting my time and that life itself will teach him….or not. Better to concentrate my energies on the kids…ages 7 9 12.
I can’t help wondering how blind I am to myself. Am I just like my nephew? That CAN’T be true….or can it?
I hope you’re able to whistle while engaged in this task. My sister is much the same; not that she gets into fights or such, her problem is an apparent inability to deal responsibly with money so she is always broke. If she were married to Bill Gates he, too, would be broke within a couple of years. And, she doesn’t listen to advice or suggestions. She will nod her head and seem to agree, but then continue on as she has for years. Nobody in the family bothers to try and advise here any more. So my suggestion would be to focus on the kids, as a friendly aunt you can at least start them towards self-observation (I’m quite grateful for the adults in my childhood who, often without awareness of what they were doing, planted such thoughts in my head). As for your nephew, probably not much to do there - self-help tapes and meditation often can just make things more rigid. The best to hope for is to slip in some Trojan horse thoughts that start off seeming to flatter but, if he continues to contemplate them, begin to dismantle. A couple of axioms that seem to apply (not only to your nephew, but to all of us) 1. You can only lie to yourself. 2. Only you have the responsibility for your own evolution. You could also, in some subtle way, mention Richard Feynman’s maxim: The first rule is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. One occasionally useful technique for passing on ego-sensitive information is to pretend that you are speaking of yourself (“I caught myself asleep yesterday, convincing myself that I was right about X even though…”).
My question is….is there any way to “awaken” others and if so, what might be some effective strategies to use? My instincts tell me that I’m wasting my time and that life itself will teach him….or not. Better to concentrate my energies on the kids…ages 7 9 12.
Not that I have found. The caveat being that they/we do seem store a lot of what we’ve been told which seems to go into the post processing calculation after we’ve done something stupid.
My advice based on personal experience and cold hard statistics is your nephew and his wife should split up now.
He sounds like a full-time flashlight. A bridge-dweller. A non-stop narrator.
These types are so convinced that they are their conscious narration that they will only take responsibility for consciously narrated thoughts.
This leaves Hippo and Now to carry on like children taking advantage of the babysitter. Any sudden burst of blood-pumping anger and Mr. Flashlight vanishes in a puff of brain static. Now, everyone has to deal with two badly trained and over-indulged children.
It’s a tricky thing to change a self-narrative while someone is watching so closely… like a house that can’t be remodeled because the owner can’t imagine living elsewhere while it happens.
He must be the hero of his own solution. He needs a redemption narrative. Better still, he needs to save his kids from dinosaurs. Something like that.
Makes sense trying to offer some relief and sanctuary for the kids; the nephew and his wife are not likely to respond much to your efforts. Rescuers are sometimes called victims.
Such great advice! Thanks. I’m going to my niece’s birthday party today (age 7) She’s been excited about it for weeks and made her parents promise they wouldn’t fight on her birthday.
My nephew and his wife live next door and they have some ear shattering fights that force me to trot over to their house to calm things down. If they didn’t have three children, I wouldn’t care, but, as it is, I feel obligated to respond, if only to take the kids over to my house.
Yesterday, I spent two hours “counseling” the husband. I’ve learned, through experience, that criticism isn’t useful at all. I usually try to appeal to his better nature and, since he believes in God, I meander into topics such as free will and the purpose and meaning of life and what sacrifices he should make for the love of his children. For a brief time, please try to look at this from a psychological perspective rather than an atheistic one. I’m not trying to push theology, I’m trying to inspire him to examine himself and his behavior and I’m using his values, which are expressed in his religion, to do this. He has been to see a priest, but, the priest apparently berated him and my nephew walked out. I doubt this is an accurate description of the event, but, the meeting certainly wasn’t successful.
Anyway, the main difficulty I encountered with my two hour session with my nephew was that, aside from his self-justification and rationalizations, he unquestioning assumption that he “knows himself” much more clearly than everyone else. He presumes this because he listens to a lot of self-help tapes and meditates. Without criticizing, I pointed out that human beings are notoriously blind to their own failings, but, although he nodded agreement, I’m quite sure that he is convinced that he is the exception.
My question is….is there any way to “awaken” others and if so, what might be some effective strategies to use? My instincts tell me that I’m wasting my time and that life itself will teach him….or not. Better to concentrate my energies on the kids…ages 7 9 12.
I can’t help wondering how blind I am to myself. Am I just like my nephew? That CAN’T be true….or can it?
Never let your oppone—er, your sweet retarded child—be a direct cause of negative emotion in you. It isn’t necessary or reasoned. Yes, your nephew is a retarded child, whether or not he’s sweet. If you do nothing else today, be sure to convince yourself of this fact so that you no longer dwell on his nonsense as having anything to do with the nonsense you already dwell on without him around.
As for how to handle him, I certainly wouldn’t give up hope and only concentrate on relieving the children occasionally. In fact, I’d bitch the mother-fucker out in front of his children, at every opportunity. That’s how I’d deal with providing relief for the kids. If truly frightening threats are involved, especially alcoholic, I’d be on the phone somewhere. He’ll act as Nhoj describes no matter how logically you’re able to see things.
See what works. Be creative and try lots of different approaches. Take notes on the results if necessary. Make a science project out of it.
: In fact, I’d bitch the mother-fucker out in front of his children, at every opportunity. That’s how I’d deal with providing relief for the kids. If truly frightening threats are involved, especially alcoholic, I’d be on the phone somewhere. He’ll act as Nhoj describes no matter how logically you’re able to see things.
Well, his wife bitches him out enough in front of the kids, so they don’t need to see another shrieking adult enter the picture. She’s a retarded child too. Nah…I shall remain…for everyone’s sake….the voice of reason.
Besides, I am not good at bitching out people. I would need to get drunk first and, at my age, hangovers aren’t worth it. Aside from wine, I’m more of a pothead and, when I partake of that, I love the whole world, retarded neighbors included.
I’m not too emotionally involved, other than to be frustrated. I also feel sad for the kids. However, I survived my unhappy childhood and they will probably survive theirs. The worst thing is the kids are already emulating their parents. All of them have developed tempers and are unkind to each other.
Oh well. I’m not sure if God exists, but I AM sure I am not Him…or Her…or Whatever. Thanks
Maybe sounds harsh, but apart from providing some relief for the kids and not bad-mouthing the parents while doing so, call Children’s Protective Services if you think there’s clear abuse. Otherwise, unless asked by one or both for your comments, butt out.
SX; ave you considered talking with his priest about him and his family situation?
No. I’ve met the priest a few times and he does not impress me as being an especially insightful guy. They are Greek Orthodox and very superstitious. Whenever I go to a church event like a wedding or christening, they spit….I think at Satan….an awful lot.
Don’t know if you’ve seem Greek Orthodox portraits of Jesus, but, He usually looks surly in them. If I could do anything for the kids, I would remove every religious picture in their home. They all give me the creeps.
Dennis: Maybe sounds harsh, but apart from providing some relief for the kids and not bad-mouthing the parents while doing so, call Children’s Protective Services if you think there’s clear abuse. Otherwise, unless asked by one or both for your comments, butt out.
Way too harsh. The police were called once or twice, but, it’s mostly screaming rather than physical abuse. Besides, I think the mother’s family would….literally…kill me. She comes from Greek peasant stock (not exaggerating) and they do not resolve problems legally. I’m encouraging a trial separation. They are both miserable…what’s the point?
And yeah…I mainly butt out, unless, like this week, I was dragged into it. Also, try to chat with the kids about unhappy marriages. My parents used to fight a lot, so I know what it feels like. Not fun. But, not the end of the world either. Many people grow up under difficult circumstances. I try to be compassionate, but, optimistic. Difficult balance, but, I try my best.
One thing I’ve learned from all this is how difficult it must be to be a psychologist! No wonder you have that sour streak!
SX; ave you considered talking with his priest about him and his family situation?
No. I’ve met the priest a few times and he does not impress me as being an especially insightful guy. They are Greek Orthodox and very superstitious. Whenever I go to a church event like a wedding or christening, they spit….I think at Satan….an awful lot.
Don’t know if you’ve seem Greek Orthodox portraits of Jesus, but, He usually looks surly in them. If I could do anything for the kids, I would remove every religious picture in their home. They all give me the creeps.
Dennis: Maybe sounds harsh, but apart from providing some relief for the kids and not bad-mouthing the parents while doing so, call Children’s Protective Services if you think there’s clear abuse. Otherwise, unless asked by one or both for your comments, butt out.
Way too harsh. The police were called once or twice, but, it’s mostly screaming rather than physical abuse. Besides, I think the mother’s family would….literally…kill me. She comes from Greek peasant stock (not exaggerating) and they do not resolve problems legally. I’m encouraging a trial separation. They are both miserable…what’s the point?
And yeah…I mainly butt out, unless, like this week, I was dragged into it. Also, try to chat with the kids about unhappy marriages. My parents used to fight a lot, so I know what it feels like. Not fun. But, not the end of the world either. Many people grow up under difficult circumstances. I try to be compassionate, but, optimistic. Difficult balance, but, I try my best.
One thing I’ve learned from all this is how difficult it must be to be a psychologist! No wonder you have that sour streak!
Another issue, perhaps. You’re basically publishing quite private familial conflict matters involving identifiable people on a world-wide public forum. One issue any psychologist who deals in these messy problems has to observe is confidentiality. If your Nephew knew that his problems were being made he subject of public discourse, you might need to seek legal counsel.
Another issue, perhaps. You’re basically publishing quite private familial conflict matters involving identifiable people on a world-wide public forum. One issue any psychologist who deals in these messy problems has to observe is confidentiality. If your Nephew knew that his problems were being made he subject of public discourse, you might need to seek legal counsel.
Doubtful, considering I haven’t mentioned his name or given my address. I mean, I’m sure, with little effort, someone would be able to retrieve this information, but, unless he or his wife murders the other one, I don’t think that my words are a danger to anyone.
Let me guess what would happen….he’d be hurt, definitely. However, he wouldn’t be as distressed as you and I might be. He and his wife say the host painful things to each other, but, they don’t seem to be as affected by the comments as I would be in similar circumstances. It seems to bounce off their backs, maybe because both of them come from volatile families….my nephew’s father is that trucker I moaned about in Florida. I would explain to him that I was seeking help from others and I regret hurting him, but my post accurately reflects my perceptions.
I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that you disapprove of more personal posts, preferring more intellectual discussions. However, sometimes, a particular can reveal a generality. My initial request was to ask how to change a person’s erroneous perception of themselves when all their defenses resisted it. This seems to me to be a appropriate topic in a psychology thread. Perhaps it might please your more if this question were presented in a more scholarly fashion, but, I thought describing it as I did was more useful, simpler, and make more vivid. Besides, logic, reason, and critical thinking are also appropriate in real life situations. I might also add that I was given excellent advice from several people, for which I am grateful. Burt’s insights were especially valuable, but so were other people’s comments, including yours. Butt out is wise advice from a psychologist, who has had much more experience dealing with this stuff than I have. You’ve dealt with hundreds of individuals and read widely, while I have only my own personal experiences to rely upon.
And yeah, it felt good. It’s not that I come from a family of dolts, but there is a scarcity of people with whom I can seek advice. On Project Reason, I feel like I’ve met a group of snippety, but good willed folks who share my values and interests, and are, for the most part, more intelligent and perceptive than I am. Why not take advantage of that when the need arises?
I suppose it is and remains my reluctance to publish personal or familial conflicts on a forum such as this; but once or twice I’ve come close to doing that and have regretted those actions. Discussing these issues in the abstract, no problem; but great care should be taken not use real, identifiable people. “Slander” might apply, but I’d just as soon not invite an attorney to explore other possibilities.
There may be no expectation of confidentiality for you, but another reason for confidentiality besides liability is so the person with whom you’re speaking feels freer to say things if s/he believes they’ll remain private.
Dennis: There may be no expectation of confidentiality for you, but another reason for confidentiality besides liability is so the person with whom you’re speaking feels freer to say things if s/he believes they’ll remain private.
Dennis: There may be no expectation of confidentiality for you, but another reason for confidentiality besides liability is so the person with whom you’re speaking feels freer to say things if s/he believes they’ll remain private.
Dennis: There may be no expectation of confidentiality for you, but another reason for confidentiality besides liability is so the person with whom you’re speaking feels freer to say things if s/he believes they’ll remain private.
Aw shit. Now I feel guilty.
Just suggest you think on it.
But is there really any danger of this nitwit actually finding himself browsing on this forum?
Dennis, you bring up an important point. Do you, being a professional, need to worry more about matters of confidentiality than most people?
Dennis: There may be no expectation of confidentiality for you, but another reason for confidentiality besides liability is so the person with whom you’re speaking feels freer to say things if s/he believes they’ll remain private.
Aw shit. Now I feel guilty.
Just suggest you think on it.
But is there really any danger of this nitwit actually finding himself browsing on this forum?
Dennis, you bring up an important point. Do you, being a professional, need to worry more about matters of confidentiality than most people?
Probably, since I’ve claimed the title; but I’m also retired and am not receiving pay. Generally, the standards of confidentiality etc. are higher for any professional person. That’s all academic unless and until someone alleges having been damaged or suffered some loss. I’d just as soon avoid having to argue all that in court.
But this is a quite public forum and not at all hidden behind any security. I may well be over-reacting; just that my “that’s wrong” meter rose with Sara’s posts.
Not for legal reasons…...moral. LIke I am betraying a trust.
I’ll have to think about it a bit before I reply. I tend to have an over-active conscience. Some people always assume they’re right. Others…of whom I am one….always assume they’re wrong. My mom used to take great advantage of this tendency! Anyway, both extremes can be damaging.
Usually it’s a mixture…we’re both right as well as wrong. That is probably true in this case, morally speaking. The need to discuss a problem is a legitmate one, esp. if one can’t see clearly and needs advice.. Writing on a forum is preferable to gossiping with family members (which I am careful not to do), but, I suppose I could have left out some details and accomplished my goal.
They contacted me and I’m filing suit tomorrow. However I will agree to settle all claims for $50,000 made payable to mytrust account. Must receive cashier’s check in 3 days. Case worth much more but I doubt you could pay
EN: They contacted me and I’m filing suit tomorrow. However I will agree to settle all claims for $50,000 made payable to mytrust account. Must receive cashier’s check in 3 days. Case worth much more but I doubt you could pay
I might need to use your services. I would like to sue Dennis for defamation of character as well as causing acute psychological distress as a result of his subtle denigration of my moral scruples on a public forum. He is a psychologist…he should be held to a higher standard. Don’t you agree? Incidentally I saved that post in which he called me an air head.
If SaraLynn is your real name, it could be Googled to find postings you’ve made. However, if it is not your actual name, and your friends/relatives don’t know your forum name, they wouldn’t have a clue where or what you have posted…at least this is what I understand.
If SaraLynn is your real name, it could be Googled to find postings you’ve made. However, if it is not your actual name, and your friends/relatives don’t know your forum name, they wouldn’t have a clue where or what you have posted…at least this is what I understand.
Exactly.
Also, if it’s a professional matter, such as with Dennis if he were discussing a client/patient of his, strict privacy and confidentiality expectations are in play there. But if I feel like describing an annoying neighbor and I don’t lie or exaggerate, I wonder how that can be a legal problem for me—or Saralynn, actually. Fortunately, two attorneys on opposite sides of the globe write up a storm around here, so if anyone gets into trouble, professional assistance is a p.m. away.
Maybe one or both of them will be kind enough to correct my above little analysis.
More than likely over-reaction on my part, but do not think it is a good idea anyway to post about friends, relatives and neighbors as she did. Anyway she already owes Bruce 50k, and he didn’t offer to split it as agreed. What a rat.
