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Dinnes, peace to you
I never intended to heart any body feelings, and i won’t ok You tell me some examples about what you think non-religious!!!
Is the universe expansion is some thing scientific or no?
if you don’t like just tell me, i began to suspect my words?
Law of gravity
Speed of light
E=MC squared
Behaviors reinforced on a variable level of reinforcement extinguish at a slower rate than continuous reinforcement once all reinforcement ceases
Boyle’s Law
And a few thousand others. None mention nor need any god.
May I pick up the light speed to talk about?
A scientist, in his explanation of a statement from an ancient book, calculated the light speed with amazing accuracy. Here is the statement
“He,Allah, rules (all) affairs from the heavens to the earth: in the end will (all affairs) go up to Him? on a Day, the space whereof will be (as) a thousand years of your reckoning.” (32-5)
How to compare one day to 1000 years
The distance reached by the affairs in a day is equal to the distance reached by the moon in 1000 years or 12000 molar months
C * t =12000 * L
where : C = the speed of the Affairs
t = time in a day
L = the route length of the moon’s trip in one month
Distance reached by moon in a month (L): 2152612.269 Km
In Sidereal system: 1 day (t) = 86164 sec.
Substituting in the main equation
Then C= 12000*2152612.269/86164
an one have a calculator
I’m sorry samy, but this is the most arrant nonsense. If you try hard enough you can get any number to come out as you want it (as a mathematician, I’ve demonstrated this on occasion). It falls into the realm of idiocy. You would do well to avoid this sort of thinking or it will turn your mind to oatmeal. It doesn’t show anything about predictions of scientific results in the Koran, rather it shows how some idiots will try anything to justify their belief because they really are not secure in that belief and are clutching at straws. In particular, from an Islamic point of view the person promoting such stupidity is really claiming to know the mind of Allah, which as I understand it is a no - no.
Ok, sister I’ll give you the secrete list why I’m Moslem, and you choose what What kind of evidences do you prefer, (using the fair Judge principle, sister)
1. The Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran
2. The Great Challenge to Produce One Chapter, Like the Chapters of the Holy Quran
3. Three challenges about creation,
4. The challenge to get any contradictions or wrong information
5. Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad the Prophet of Islam
6. The Verses in the Quran That Mention Future Events Which Later Came to Pass
7. Miracles Performed by the Prophet Muhammad
8. The great personality and Simple Life of Muhammad
9. The Phenomenal steady and stable Growth of Islam
10. the truth is what the enemies witnessed for you
Samy, this is not evidence. As far as I can see, all you are telling us is what it says in the koran. None of those 10 points proves anything. You are just saying that they are true because they are in the koran. That is not satisfactory. I want to know why I should believe the koran. I want evidence that what is written in the koran is true.
Do you understand what evidence is?
I for one do not believe that a single word in the koran comes from anywhere but from within the head of a man who lived 1400 years ago. I do not believe in gods so I cannot believe any god could have spoken these words.
So, firstly, how can you prove to me that god exists and, secondly, that the words in the koran are his words? You cannot prove anything by referring back to or by quoting the koran. That is just circular reasoning. Give me concrete evidence that can be tested. When you do that, then I may convert to islam.
Really, it would be too kind of you, if any of you can check that for me, who ever knows an honest scientist in this field to check it out,
Really if I know any scientist I won’t hesitate to consult him.
I’ll ask like that: is it really, the moon traviling distance in 1000 years is the same like that the light moves in 1 day? And what was the accuracy? In Sidereal system: 1 day (t) = 86164 sec. plz get to this web site and make sure if these information are valuable for me: http://www.scribd.com/doc/337010/The-Speed-of-Light-Calculation-in-Quran
And then wait for his replay
The scientist : “yes, with almost 100% accuracy” wow
” No, and the problem is here……….” yep
But, don’t care about it, it seams difficult, let’s find an easy one
A scientist, in his explanation of a statement from a 1400 years old book, which tells:
(والسماء بنيناها بأيد وإنا لموسعون (51- 47
“And it is We who have constructed the heaven (sky) with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.” (The Qur’an, 51:47)
He says that the “Universe is Expanding” . is it real???
For more details: http://www.answering-christianity.com/6_days.htm
Before answering, you have to check out the translation from any one who have good idea about Arabic language.
Really, it would be too kind of you, if any of you can check that for me, who ever knows an honest scientist in this field to check it out,
Really if I know any scientist I won’t hesitate to consult him.
I’ll ask like that: is it really, the moon traviling distance in 1000 years is the same like that the light moves in 1 day? And what was the accuracy? In Sidereal system: 1 day (t) = 86164 sec. plz get to this web site and make sure if these information are valuable for me: http://www.scribd.com/doc/337010/The-Speed-of-Light-Calculation-in-Quran
And then wait for his replay
The scientist : “yes, with almost 100% accuracy” wow
” No, and the problem is here……….” yep
But, don’t care about it, it seams difficult, let’s find an easy one
A scientist, in his explanation of a statement from a 1400 years old book, which tells:
(والسماء بنيناها بأيد وإنا لموسعون (51- 47
“And it is We who have constructed the heaven (sky) with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.” (The Qur’an, 51:47)
He says that the “Universe is Expanding” . is it real???
For more details: http://www.answering-christianity.com/6_days.htm
Before answering, you have to check out the translation from any one who have good idea about Arabic language.
Samy, you are doing precisely what I explained to you was unacceptable when trying to prove the accuracy of the koran. You’re quoting the koran to prove the koran. That is circular, meaningless and useless. It is not a valid argument.
Oh, and I don’t need an old book or another scientist to prove to me how fast the moon travels or how long light takes to get from the moon to earth or anywhere else. It’s a simple calculation any school kid could do his head. All you need to know is distance and speed. None of which has the slightest relevance in an argument about the existence of gods or the truth value of an ancient book.
I’ll ask again, do you understand what evidence is? Do you understand the basics of logical argument? It seems not. Your argument seems to indicate they your religion has fogged your brain and made you unable to see reason. Am I right?
I appreciate Samy’s civility (relative to some of the other true believers we’ve had on this site), but it’s clear that he’s too deeply invested in theological woo for meaningful dialouge.
Samy, you’re going to need to step outside of your comfort zone if you expect many of us to continue “debating” you.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft - 13 July 2011 03:31 AM
samy_73 - 13 July 2011 03:13 AM
brothers and sisters, peace to you
Really, it would be too kind of you, if any of you can check that for me, who ever knows an honest scientist in this field to check it out,
Really if I know any scientist I won’t hesitate to consult him.
I’ll ask like that: is it really, the moon traviling distance in 1000 years is the same like that the light moves in 1 day? And what was the accuracy? In Sidereal system: 1 day (t) = 86164 sec. plz get to this web site and make sure if these information are valuable for me: http://www.scribd.com/doc/337010/The-Speed-of-Light-Calculation-in-Quran
And then wait for his replay
The scientist : “yes, with almost 100% accuracy” wow
” No, and the problem is here……….” yep
But, don’t care about it, it seams difficult, let’s find an easy one
A scientist, in his explanation of a statement from a 1400 years old book, which tells:
(والسماء بنيناها بأيد وإنا لموسعون (51- 47
“And it is We who have constructed the heaven (sky) with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.” (The Qur’an, 51:47)
He says that the “Universe is Expanding” . is it real???
For more details: http://www.answering-christianity.com/6_days.htm
Before answering, you have to check out the translation from any one who have good idea about Arabic language.
Samy, you are doing precisely what I explained to you was unacceptable when trying to prove the accuracy of the koran. You’re quoting the koran to prove the koran. That is circular, meaningless and useless. It is not a valid argument.
Oh, and I don’t need an old book or another scientist to prove to me how fast the moon travels or how long light takes to get from the moon to earth or anywhere else. It’s a simple calculation any school kid could do his head. All you need to know is distance and speed. None of which has the slightest relevance in an argument about the existence of gods or the truth value of an ancient book.
I’ll ask again, do you understand what evidence is? Do you understand the basics of logical argument? It seems not. Your argument seems to indicate they your religion has fogged your brain and made you unable to see reason. Am I right?
peace to you,
I’m requesting an Cour internationale de Justice, International Court of Justice, and the National Council of Human Rights to solve that problem. No I won’t complain about you internationally, and I won’t get into courts,
But I like every body here to give his fair judge, am I doing some thing wrong?
Warning: who will wear the black coat and the wig have to be and only be a fair judge!!
Am I proofing the Quran with Quran or proofing the Quran with science?
Is it acceptable for the Atheist/Christian/……Moslem to defend his beliefs? To try to clarify what has been rumored about it? Where the freedom is?
Is it fair to like to here about any religion only from those who never understood it or never practiced it? sir (judge) that’s applied for all beliefs
I appreciate Samy’s civility (relative to some of the other true believers we’ve had on this site), but it’s clear that he’s too deeply invested in theological woo for meaningful dialouge.
Samy, you’re going to need to step outside of your comfort zone if you expect many of us to continue “debating” you.
peace to you
i appreciate you too, bigredfutbol,
what i can do, some one requists that, while replaying him the other tells not that but this ....
you judge the case,
if you are in a catholic room, is it allowed to you to try to explain your beliefs or no?
i began to be confused,
have a great day
I appreciate Samy’s civility (relative to some of the other true believers we’ve had on this site), but it’s clear that he’s too deeply invested in theological woo for meaningful dialouge.
Samy, you’re going to need to step outside of your comfort zone if you expect many of us to continue “debating” you.
peace to you
i appreciate you too, bigredfutbol,
what i can do, some one requists that, while replaying him the other tells not that but this ....
you judge the case,
if you are in a catholic room, is it allowed to you to try to explain your beliefs or no?
i began to be confused,
have a great day
Samy, you are allowed to explain your beliefs, but you don’t seem willing to do so without self-referencing the tenets of your beliefs.
I already told you samy, this is total nonsense. If nothing else, how can you say how far the moon travels in 1,000 years? It travels around the Earth, the Earth travels around the Sun, the Sun travels around the center of the galaxy, and the galaxy moves through the universe. So the distance the moon travels in 1,000 years is the sum of all these motions. But the entire thing was nonsense to begin with. And, the calculations done are bogus, too. First off, the moon follows an elliptical orbit around the earth (you do know that, don’t you?) so you’d have to take that into account, can’t just assume it’s a circle and use the formula for circumference of a circle (that would introduce errors already). In other words, there is enough fuzz in the numbers that you can make them do whatever you wish. From the scientific point of view this entire line of argument is a disgrace and an insult to Islamic scientists both today and in the past.
With respect to the word translated as “expanding” I suspect that if it were honestly translated it would read “sustaining” which is something entirely different.
I have doubts that you are any sort of engineer at all, and if you are I would be seriously concerned about your competence since you seem to have no idea of either engineering or science from you posts.
samy_73 - 13 July 2011 03:13 AM
brothers and sisters, peace to you
Really, it would be too kind of you, if any of you can check that for me, who ever knows an honest scientist in this field to check it out,
Really if I know any scientist I won’t hesitate to consult him.
I’ll ask like that: is it really, the moon traviling distance in 1000 years is the same like that the light moves in 1 day? And what was the accuracy? In Sidereal system: 1 day (t) = 86164 sec. plz get to this web site and make sure if these information are valuable for me: http://www.scribd.com/doc/337010/The-Speed-of-Light-Calculation-in-Quran
And then wait for his replay
The scientist : “yes, with almost 100% accuracy” wow
” No, and the problem is here……….” yep
But, don’t care about it, it seams difficult, let’s find an easy one
A scientist, in his explanation of a statement from a 1400 years old book, which tells:
(والسماء بنيناها بأيد وإنا لموسعون (51- 47
“And it is We who have constructed the heaven (sky) with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.” (The Qur’an, 51:47)
He says that the “Universe is Expanding” . is it real???
For more details: http://www.answering-christianity.com/6_days.htm
Before answering, you have to check out the translation from any one who have good idea about Arabic language.
I already told you samy, this is total nonsense. If nothing else, how can you say how far the moon travels in 1,000 years? It travels around the Earth, the Earth travels around the Sun, the Sun travels around the center of the galaxy, and the galaxy moves through the universe. So the distance the moon travels in 1,000 years is the sum of all these motions. But the entire thing was nonsense to begin with. And, the calculations done are bogus, too. First off, the moon follows an elliptical orbit around the earth (you do know that, don’t you?) so you’d have to take that into account, can’t just assume it’s a circle and use the formula for circumference of a circle (that would introduce errors already). In other words, there is enough fuzz in the numbers that you can make them do whatever you wish. From the scientific point of view this entire line of argument is a disgrace and an insult to Islamic scientists both today and in the past.
With respect to the word translated as “expanding” I suspect that if it were honestly translated it would read “sustaining” which is something entirely different.
I have doubts that you are any sort of engineer at all, and if you are I would be seriously concerned about your competence since you seem to have no idea of either engineering or science from you posts.
samy_73 - 13 July 2011 03:13 AM
brothers and sisters, peace to you
Really, it would be too kind of you, if any of you can check that for me, who ever knows an honest scientist in this field to check it out,
Really if I know any scientist I won’t hesitate to consult him.
I’ll ask like that: is it really, the moon traviling distance in 1000 years is the same like that the light moves in 1 day? And what was the accuracy? In Sidereal system: 1 day (t) = 86164 sec. plz get to this web site and make sure if these information are valuable for me: http://www.scribd.com/doc/337010/The-Speed-of-Light-Calculation-in-Quran
And then wait for his replay
The scientist : “yes, with almost 100% accuracy” wow
” No, and the problem is here……….” yep
But, don’t care about it, it seams difficult, let’s find an easy one
A scientist, in his explanation of a statement from a 1400 years old book, which tells:
(والسماء بنيناها بأيد وإنا لموسعون (51- 47
“And it is We who have constructed the heaven (sky) with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.” (The Qur’an, 51:47)
He says that the “Universe is Expanding” . is it real???
For more details: http://www.answering-christianity.com/6_days.htm
Before answering, you have to check out the translation from any one who have good idea about Arabic language.
peace to you,
Although I didn’t like the last part of your quotation, but I can bear it.
I didn’t claim that i know every detail about it, so I directed you to the web site
To check all of that. And request you to explain it to me.
While all of your clarifications were absolutely logic, but it seems to me you didn’t visit the web site to know what exactly it missed.
While in the second subject it’s linguistics problem. Since I’m Arabic speaker I can say that “لموسعون La mouse oun” it means ” we are expanding it “
You don’t have to expect the meaning, just ask any Arabic speaker guy or look it up in an Arabic dictionary.
any how, i’m sure the next one is so easy
The Qur’an on Mountains:
A book entitled Earth is a basic reference textbook in many universities around the world. One of its two authors is Professor Emeritus Frank Press. He was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter, and for 12 years was the President of the National Academy of Sciences, Washington, DC. His book says that mountains have underlying roots. These roots are deeply embedded in the ground, thus, mountains have a shape like a peg.. This is how the Qur’an has described mountains. God has said in the Qur’an:
_ Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? _ (Qur’an, 78:6-7)
Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in 1865 by the Astronomer Royal, Sir George Airy. Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth. They hinder the shaking of the earth. God has said in the Qur’an:
_ And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you… _ (Qur’an, 16:15)
Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s.
Could anyone during the time of the Prophet Muhammad _ have known of the true shape of mountains? Could anyone imagine that the solid massive mountain which he sees before him actually extends deep into the earth and has a root, as scientists affirm? Modern geology has confirmed the truth of the Qur’anic verses.
This is a lost cause and wasted effort. All you’re going to get is blather from the Koran. He’ll never you otherwise, he simply does nor seem to have any idea how to do so.
What is interesting to me about Samy (however many there are) is that s/he seems so embedded in his religion and culture that he has no frame of reference apart from that. That’s no fault of his, instead it seems to reflect the extent to which maybe any person can be so wrapped up in his cultural perceptions that they’re unable to communicate clearly to those outside of it, nor they to him. S/he seems to be seeking some dialogue, and not to be pushing his theism as does BM, but really trying to make some contact. Not at all sure how to engage this person in a way that reduces the cultural clutter, I tried some I thought pretty concrete posts and was not happy with the result; my deficiency as much as his.
This is a lost cause and wasted effort. All you’re going to get is blather from the Koran. He’ll never you otherwise, he simply does nor seem to have any idea how to do so.
What is interesting to me about Samy (however many there are) is that s/he seems so embedded in his religion and culture that he has no frame of reference apart from that. That’s no fault of his, instead it seems to reflect the extent to which maybe any person can be so wrapped up in his cultural perceptions that they’re unable to communicate clearly to those outside of it, nor they to him. S/he seems to be seeking some dialogue, and not to be pushing his theism as does BM, but really trying to make some contact. Not at all sure how to engage this person in a way that reduces the cultural clutter, I tried some I thought pretty concrete posts and was not happy with the result; my deficiency as much as his.
Dennis, peace to you,
Do you have women with mustaches in the states? I have one. I’m he, ok!
Take it easy. It’s just some words I have to say. Don’t bother you self and reply, but let me say it,
Yes the Quran is not a scientific text book of course you will not find there “A theoretical and experimental study of the electro-hydraulic servo-valve with the jet pipe amplifier”. It’s only 77436 words, almost 1/11 of the bible size. But it was not against science ever, it urged to collect science. And it gave some land marks in each science field. It tells us how and why we are here in this life. It deals also with all the subjects which concern human beings: wisdom, doctrine, worship, transactions, law, educational stories, … etc., but its basic theme is the relationship between God and His creatures. At the same time, it provides guidelines and detailed teachings for a just society, proper human conduct, and an equitable economic system.
i think if you asked me what do you prefer “the jet pipe amplifier” or the “flapper jet amplifier” or any thing ,generally, in mechanics or ,specially, in Hydraulics we may have a good contact.
I’m studying the evolution right now, so that we may have some common ideas, then allow me to ask questions. And vise versa if you like.
But the main concept, let’s get out of here while we are friends, if you don’t mind.
Sure, every body here can say, I have a friend from Egypt, if he like.
Why are you posting to this forum? Obviously, almost everyone here does not share any belief in any God, and almost all of us subscribe to “humanist” or “secular” values used to deal with social, civil, legal and scientific issues. Many of us, including myself, find Islam a religion from the 17th century that does not fit well with most western secular values. Your claims that Islam is somehow a font of science just is not accepted. Neither is Christianity for that matter.
Maybe if you posted more about your purposes and hopes in trying to have a discussion with people here, as well as your own status (occupation, education, familial status; etc.) we might be able to better communicate. See my bio posted, as an example. I have been impressed with your lack of vitriol in your posts, some who call themselves Muslims have posted here as fanatic true believers, and we will not give those kinds of people any particular attention, any more than we do Christian advocates who seek to impose their beliefs on us here.
From what I’ve read of your posts, your understanding of the major premises of scientific thinking is very bad. Skepticism, operational definitions, falsification; objective verification, etc., as well as an anti-authoritarian disposition are main ingredients. Acceptance of any cited authority without questioning is not.
peace to you,
Although I didn’t like the last part of your quotation, but I can bear it.
I didn’t claim that i know every detail about it, so I directed you to the web site
To check all of that. And request you to explain it to me.
While all of your clarifications were absolutely logic, but it seems to me you didn’t visit the web site to know what exactly it missed.
Once a would-be writer submitted a story to a magazine. It was returned with a short rejection slip. The author suspected that the magazine editor had not bothered to read the entire story so the next story he submitted he put a small amount of adhesive between pages 3 and 4, holding them together. This story was also returned with a short rejection note. The writer noted that pages 3 and 4 were still stuck together and he wrote an angry letter to the editor accusing him of not even bothering to read the entire story before making his judgment to reject it. The editor replied in a short note: “I don’t have to eat the whole fish to know that it is rotten.” In the same way, I don’t have to visit a website or go through any analysis to know that the claim is bogus. I am a busy person, and don’t have time to waste on obvious stupidity. If you want to evaluate this, it is up to you, I am under no obligation to do your work for you. That is why I said I suspect that you are not an engineer. If you are, you have all the background in mathematics you need, and you know all about approximations and how numbers can be fudged if there is enough uncertainty in them. As far as I can tell, you are simply trying to propagandize your religion here, reminding me of somebody or other who did this a couple of years ago on the Sam Harris forum. I may well be wrong about this, if so I apologize, perhaps it is simply a matter of different cultural background.
If you are really interested in things like this (and the other Quranic quotes you toss out) then I really do suggest that you heed the advice of Imam Abu Hamid Muhammet Ibn Muhammed al Ghazali, known as “The Proof of Islam”: “In order to discover where the professors of any branch of knowledge have erred, one must make a profound study of that science; must equal, even surpass those who know most of it….” If you truly are seeking knowledge (and the Prophet, peace be with him, has given the injunction to seek knowledge) then you have a difficult road ahead of you and the first step will be the hardest because it will require that you distance yourself from the surface meanings of the Quran and avoid reference to it all together in the study of science. This doesn’t mean you abandon Islam, God forbid, but rather that you internalize it as part of your internal being while (in the words of Jesus) “rendering unto Cesar” as far as the external material world of secular science is concerned. May you prosper and grow in wisdom as you follow this path; or, if you abandon it, may you remain content in dogmatic slumber and be satisfied and not seek to dispute or question matters of the intellect. God knows which path is best for all.
