Ecurb Noselrub - 13 May 2011 09:29 PM

GAD - 13 May 2011 07:05 PM

Ecurb Noselrub - 13 May 2011 10:54 AM

robbrownsyd - 13 May 2011 05:17 AM

They are much more advance in many ways in China and have had 75 years of state sponsored atheism that will not be easily undone. I don’t think christianity suits the Chinese mind or culture or outlook I think if they wanted religion they mostly go back to the old ones. I just cannot see xtianity gaining much of a foothold in China. But then, who knows? Religion can do funny things to people.

Are you in favor of state sponsored/enforced atheism?

If it’s the lesser of two evils.

You’ve got to be kidding.

No.

Not to mention that Christian evangelicals in the China knowingly expose the innocents they dupe to state retribution.

So what do we have? A virus of a belief system, known to be false, historically proven to be vicious, which is deeply involved in gay bashing, and gay marginalizing the world over,  who works   tirelessly to attack scientists and doctors on all front , who is thwarting species-saving legislation in the form of action on global warming, who attacks women’s health care and has historically attacked any advancement for women now wants to spread itself into China despite the consequences for anyone its able to swindle.

In this last point, they’re no different from drug pushers who addict their victims, endanger their lives and leave them open to state sponsored retribution.

What I am looking for is YouTube videos exposing Christians for what they are and what they do. Videos showing Christians lying, displaying intolerance distorting science and history, teaching intolerance and hate, bashing science, going after women and gays and war mongering and just going on about what they believe.

The idea is to intersperse clips from these videos with a Chinese narrative, putting Christianity into a larger contemporary and historical context and emphasizing the fact that the intelligent and educated Westerners both in the US and Europe don’t believe in Christ or Christianity and don’t appreciate the effect Christianity is having on their societies.

Recall how Christianity has been able to operate through its missionaries- they go first to virgin territory and infect the population with their sick world view, and that population naively assumes that this is what the West is all about. In fact, what defines the West is science and secularism and our quest to know reality as it is. There are over a billion people in China. That’s a a lot of future political clout. Can we really afford to let the evangelicals influence them unopposed? Has doing so ever yielded any good results?

I will collect links here in this thread for anyone who wants to contribute.

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There is a current affairs program on TV here tonight about the harassment of ‘unregistered’ christian churches in China. The god botherers are screaming ‘foul’. I don’t agree with interfering with freedom of religion. Nor do I agree with the state sponsoring religion.  If the backyard churches in question in China only need to ‘register’ to be allowed to operate then why don’t they get registered? What are they afraid of? Trying to avoid tax maybe?

I think churches here should have to be registered and should have to pay tax. They’ve had a free ride for far too long - a free ride which really amounts to state sponsorship of religion. And they are allowed to discriminate even where such discrimination would normally be in breach of anti-discrimination legislation. In Australia, churches are allowed to deny employment in their schools to gay teachers just becasue the teachers are gay. Any other employer could be sued for this. It’s outrageous.

Churches and their schools should be subject to the same anti-discrimination laws and the same taxes as all other businesses. I have no problem with China making these shysters register. They need to have tabs kept on them to make sure they are not undermining societal cohesion and engaging in exploitation as happens in so many countries where christain churches operate without any controls at all. Imagine China full of televangelists and fraudsters like Jimmy Swaggart et al and child abusers like in the RCC. No. These bastions of immorality need strict oversight by the state and I hope China keeps up the good work.

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Black Heart General - 16 May 2011 07:01 PM

I think one of the other restrictions is on the size of the gathering. It’s weird that Christians are having such a hard time there. Baha’is aren’t, at least according to what I’ve heard. They register their congregations and keep them appropriately sized and encounter no problems with the state.  Maybe the Christians just want to be martyrs.

Yes, throughout much of the last 2000 years they’ve been a thorn in humanity’s side. The only difference today is that people are taking about it. And the churches don’t like it. Dammit, they hate it!  Their rights are god given and they don’t like being made to obey laws that apply to everyone else.

They think that if they cry foul over being treated in China like all other organisations the rest of the theist world will come to their rescue. Dream on.

If htey don’t like it, stiff shit! Let ‘em lump it. Get out of China or let god intervene on their behalf. Anyway, he’ll be here on the 21st of May so after that things should be looking up for them. Then they can enjoy everlasting pleasure watching all us atheists in our agony burning in hell. Happy times.

I know for the fact and I have seen it that Chinese goverment exploits Christian religion only to advertise.
Christian religion is a biggest prostitute in the world and It would sell for money by any mean and any day. Vatican surly knows that and they have manage to
pile alot of money from that. Chinese children made Santa their Jesus. I have seen Christian Chinese but as some of you say is a cronical sickness and it need to be
cured. I say we need word free of any religion. But we are long from accomplising that goal for freedom of speach does not exist here. At least not one that would make
people think about it. Religion is hate and had its time. Chinese are smart and they only use what is usefull from other people. And laugh at them by doing that.

StarMan26 - 13 July 2011 01:26 AM

I know for the fact and I have seen it that Chinese goverment exploits Christian religion only to advertise.
Christian religion is a biggest prostitute in the world and It would sell for money by any mean and any day. Vatican surly knows that and they have manage to
pile alot of money from that. Chinese children made Santa their Jesus. I have seen Christian Chinese but as some of you say is a cronical sickness and it need to be
cured. I say we need word free of any religion. But we are long from accomplising that goal for freedom of speach does not exist here. At least not one that would make
people think about it. Religion is hate and had its time. Chinese are smart and they only use what is usefull from other people. And laugh at them by doing that.

I support the Chinese stance on religion. If christians want to operate in China they must do it according to Chinese law. Why should christians get special treatment? China is not America or Australia. I wish my own government would tax the bastards just like everyone else is taxed.

If christians or other religions don’t want to carry on their religious nonsense within the bounds of the law of the countries in which they operate then they should get the hell out. China is right to insist they obey Chinese law. Goodness knows, between the christians and the muslims a terrible mess has been made of the whole continent of Africa. How can one blame China for keeping a tight reign on religion to minimise its divisiveness and its malignant effect on the health and cohesion of its society. They can also see what it’s doing to America.

Just as China’s economy is booming so will science boom in China. America is in the process of cedeing its place as the world’s economic and scientific powerhouse. It’s status as the worlds leading economy was built on science. Now kids there can no longer get a decent scientific education because of religion infecting its science curricula. And this despite Obama’s promise to “restore science to its rightful place” in America. The country has lost its mind. Trillions wasted on Bushes religious wars and nothing spent on science. They can run wars but can no longer fund the space program and will have to rent room on Russian and Chinese rockets to get their people into space. Interesting story here about what fundamentalist xtianity is doing to America: http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=tyOvfsPx+YpHoP1Lqj8ZnCSXdtFY1x+L

Believe me, it gives me no pleasure to say all this or to see America falling behind. What good is a weak American ally to a small Australia. But there it is. Religion poisons relationship between families and between nations. It truly poisons everything!

I guess that after that little vent I’ll now get called a secular humanist fundamentalist and anti-American. In fact, I am neither. But, frankly, I don’t give a damn what people call me! If folks can’t handle the truth that’s their problem.

The Christian community in China is growing rapidly. The Korean evangelical movement is especially strong in schools and universities.  They must be stopped.  How can I contribute?

Ecurb Noselrub - 12 May 2011 07:07 PM

Do you perceive Christianity to be more damaging to the Chinese than the Chinese Communist Party?  Do you really think that the relatively few Christians in China pose a greater danger than the old guard commies who control every aspect of people’s lives over there?  So great a danger than you would be willing to align yourself with the Communists, and encourage or promote persecution of Christians (which is what you would be doing)? 

I really find this curious.  It appears to me that you have an unbalanced world view. Totalitarian forms of government are a great threat to human freedom and dignity.  A few rag-tag groups of Christians in China are not.

I found this response particularly disturbing. Anyone demonizing another country simply on the basis of government structure is ill informed and politically stupid. All government structures have faults and limitations.

Runaway communism gets into trouble when the government owns the businesses.
Runaway capitalism gets into trouble when the businesses own the government.

It’s time to take a reality check on the USA and it’s run away capitalism with a military industrial complex that is now far worse than communism ever was or could become. To check, go look at military spending.

No particular style of government is wrong in and of itself, it mostly depends on the people running the government. Here, I urge you to have a look at the quality of political candidates attracted to the American right wing. I also urge you to notice that the USA has abandoned the moral high-ground against the torture of prisoners and now sanctioned the employment of this horrible and ineffective practice (remember that under torture people will admit to flying on brooms).

Now on to the problem of religion ... it becomes a problem in any country where it gains a foothold as a legal scam. What we need to do in China and in all other countries of the world is to insist that religions be held accountable for their beliefs, practices, and the harm done due to lying to their followers.

examples of religious harm ...
~ 6 year old in India sacrificed to ensure a good crop.
~ girls killed in Dishonor murders by their family for the ‘sin’ of marrying a person disproved of, or worse, for having been raped.
~ children being denied the necessary health care and dying while parents resorted to prayer and faith as taught by their church.
~ Sufferers of HIV being told not to use condoms, because contraception has been deemed a ‘sin’ despite this not having been invented during biblical times. This has resulted in the spread of aids.
~ The demonizing of people by category (bigotry) that is most prevalent in anti-gay efforts, but was previously employed as anti black, anti-Jewish, and anti-woman’s rights. Notice a christian witch hunter is showing up in Texas soon.
~ legitimate scientific research being derailed and quashed by religious organizations for purely religious stupidity.
~ fleecing money from parishioners using false pretexts of helping the poor when they offered minimal help, or worse made the lives of the poor far worse. See Mother Teresa’s home for the poor where sick old people with no family are taken to die ... with no painkillers of any proper medical help.

The list goes on.
Speaking out is necessary, especially when the people being abused by religion are also suffering the disaster of having a terrible government to contend with.

Good post, TOE. And I like the term ‘dishonor killing’. It is a barbaric and shameful religious/cultural practice which should not be linked with the word ‘honor’. There is nothing honorable about it.