Project Reason is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit foundation devoted to spreading scientific knowledge and secular values in society. The foundation draws on the talents of prominent and creative thinkers in a wide range of disciplines to encourage critical thinking and erode the influence of dogmatism, superstition, and bigotry in our world.
Christian evangelism never sleeps, and it’s trying to press itself into China. Whatever else is true about the Chinese, to their credit they have never adopted any kind of transcendental other-worldly religion.
Yet Christian evangelists are dead set on converting the Chinese, and everyone else of course.
I am afraid that the Chinese may think that this “the” Western religion and become interested in it just for that reason.
I am wondering if we can’t make some YouTube type movies exposing the Christian evangelists as the stupid, destructive anti-science bigots that they are. I am thinking that the voice over might be done in a number of Chinese dialects.
For the time being, we would have the advantage of NOT being blocked by the Great Firewall since on this topic at least the Chinese government and ourselves see eye to eye. This gives us a good deal of leverage in spreading the fact within China that Christianity is not something educated Americans believe in or respect and presenting an unappealing picture of Christians top the Chinese as a way of sort of inoculating them against this specific form of stupidity.
I am looking for feedback to see what other people think. I have some cycles I am willing to dedicate to this and am willing to collaborate with others. Anyone who spoke Chinese and wanted to join in would obviously be a great boon.
Do you perceive Christianity to be more damaging to the Chinese than the Chinese Communist Party? Do you really think that the relatively few Christians in China pose a greater danger than the old guard commies who control every aspect of people’s lives over there? So great a danger than you would be willing to align yourself with the Communists, and encourage or promote persecution of Christians (which is what you would be doing)?
I really find this curious. It appears to me that you have an unbalanced world view. Totalitarian forms of government are a great threat to human freedom and dignity. A few rag-tag groups of Christians in China are not.
Yeah I didn’t expect you’d approve. To answer your questions, Christianity is a disease. Witness what they did in Uganda lately. We don’t need a repeat of that. If you buy anything, you are explicitly supporting the “totalitarian communists” in China. I presume you tell yourself you have to deal with the world as you find it and there are some things you can’t directly change. Assuming you do think something like that, then why wouldn’t you ascribe exactly the same motivations to me and everyone else electing to engage China as they find it.
I don’t appear to have an unbalanced world view. What I appear to have is total contempt for Christianity and a very recent, sick and bloody example in Uganda of what they do when they’re permitted to infect a naive population.
Yeah I didn’t expect you’d approve. To answer your questions, Christianity is a disease. Witness what they did in Uganda lately. We don’t need a repeat of that. If you buy anything, you are explicitly supporting the “totalitarian communists” in China. I presume you tell yourself you have to deal with the world as you find it and there are some things you can’t directly change. Assuming you do think something like that, then why wouldn’t you ascribe exactly the same motivations to me and everyone else electing to engage China as they find it.
I don’t appear to have an unbalanced world view. What I appear to have is total contempt for Christianity and a very recent, sick and bloody example in Uganda of what they do when they’re permitted to infect a naive population.
OK, let’s assume that Christians in Uganda have done evil. Does that mean that Christians in China are worse than the Communist state? Every group has committed evil. Communists, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews - they’ve all done some nasty stuff at times. But Communism, especially the Chinese style, is a much greater threat to human dignity and freedom than Christianity. The freest nations in the world all come out of a Christian background, even if they have left it behind. Chinese Communism is, by its very nature, contrary to individual freedom.
Why do you personally have such contempt for Christianity? Was there something that happened in your life that made you hate it? Wouldn’t you need to step back from that experience before you could objectively judge between Chinese Christianity (a very small force) and Chinese Communism?
I think China is not blind to the danger posed by religion. It has given the Deli Lama a hard time for decades and it clamps down ferociously on ‘unauthorised’ christan churches. I think China will be able to keep the problem in check. While they’re about it, I wish they’d allow true freedom of speech, stop blocking the internet, arresting everyone and anyone who expresses opposition to the party etc, etc. I admire the progress the Chinese have made in terms of economic freedom and growth but the ‘communist’ government’s human rights record is abysmal and it reflects badly on their country.
robbrownsyd, my specific and limited goal is to undermine the evangelicals in China and inoculate the Chinese against this disease. That’s my limited goal. I understand that people don’t like what the government there does along some dimensions. I am not going to tithe these two things together since that only the stated goal.
Ecurb Noselrub- you’re just an apologist for the mass murder that Christianity has systematically unleashed on the world every time it’s acquired significant governmental powers. Christians liked to say that they’d never do anything like what they did for generations in Europe, except of course the first time they get the chance in someplace like Uganda they do exactly that. So what is their excuse now? Of it’s only SOME Christians. So this religion hasn’t piled up enough bodies for you to think it’s, at it’s core, dangerous. One wonders what event you’re waiting for before you’ll concede that Christianity is a murderous, bigoted religion.
You’ve made your position known. Now you’re just doing what all apologists do- minimization, distortion, denial, etc. etc. We’re done talking.
robbrownsyd, my specific and limited goal is to undermine the evangelicals in China and inoculate the Chinese against this disease. That’s my limited goal. I understand that people don’t like what the government there does along some dimensions. I am not going to tithe these two things together since that only the stated goal.
I loathe evangelicals of any religious stripe. I think BHG was onto something when he said “It is unfortunate that the Communist Party weakened the native religions, leaving the population ripe for spiritual exploitation”. The old religions were nowhere near as harmful as evangelical christianity or islam has proved to be. I am appalled at what has been happening in Uganda, for example. At the moment I am assisting gay refugees from that country to come to Australia (I’m an immigration lawyer). I just don’t think that it will present the same sort of problems in China as it has in Africa. They are much more advance in many ways in China and have had 75 years of state sponsored atheism that will not be easily undone. I don’t think christianity suits the Chinese mind or culture or outlook I think if they wanted religion they mostly go back to the old ones. I just cannot see xtianity gaining much of a foothold in China. But then, who knows? Religion can do funny things to people.
“At the moment I am assisting gay refugees from that country to come to Australia.”
Good for you, nice that people are not taking laissez fare attitude towards this. I would like to see the US treat Uganda the way it’s treating Libya.
In my experience, the Chinese are a weird mix of superstitious and practical. Not to mention they’re strongly influenced by what they see as whatever the social norms are. I am not convinced at all that they aren’t vulnerable to a fundamentalist type thinking taking hold. Believe me the evangelical scum see that as a huge money market and they’d love to get started there with their televangelists and societal pogroms against secularists and humanists.
Well, let’s hope that the communist party bosses don’t get infected by xtianity because, if they do, we’ll have a double whammy to contend with: Communism (not so far removed from religion) and religion. And that would be scary. With more than a billion people under the religious sway of the party bosses, the world would be in deep, deep shit. Even deeper than it’s in already because of religion.
Ecurb Noselrub- you’re just an apologist for the mass murder that Christianity has systematically unleashed on the world every time it’s acquired significant governmental powers. Christians liked to say that they’d never do anything like what they did for generations in Europe, except of course the first time they get the chance in someplace like Uganda they do exactly that. So what is their excuse now? Of it’s only SOME Christians. So this religion hasn’t piled up enough bodies for you to think it’s, at it’s core, dangerous. One wonders what event you’re waiting for before you’ll concede that Christianity is a murderous, bigoted religion.
You’ve made your position known. Now you’re just doing what all apologists do- minimization, distortion, denial, etc. etc. We’re done talking.
I wasn’t aware that I was denying or justifying what happens in Uganda or elsewhere. I was questioning your comparative evaluation of the brutality of the Chinese communist regime as opposed to Chinese Christians. Not only is your evaluation flawed, but your reaction to my questions is over the top. But if you don’t want to discuss it anymore, that’s fine with me. Good day.
They are much more advance in many ways in China and have had 75 years of state sponsored atheism that will not be easily undone. I don’t think christianity suits the Chinese mind or culture or outlook I think if they wanted religion they mostly go back to the old ones. I just cannot see xtianity gaining much of a foothold in China. But then, who knows? Religion can do funny things to people.
Are you in favor of state sponsored/enforced atheism?
No. I’m not in favor of state sponored/enforced belief or non-belief of any sort. Especially not politcal or religious belief/non-belief. I’m in favour of freedom of speech, thought and action providing it does not harm others. It’s quite simple really.
No. I’m not in favor of state sponored/enforced belief or non-belief of any sort. Especially not politcal or religious belief/non-belief. I’m in favour of freedom of speech, thought and action providing it does not harm others. It’s quite simple really.
They are much more advance in many ways in China and have had 75 years of state sponsored atheism that will not be easily undone. I don’t think christianity suits the Chinese mind or culture or outlook I think if they wanted religion they mostly go back to the old ones. I just cannot see xtianity gaining much of a foothold in China. But then, who knows? Religion can do funny things to people.
Are you in favor of state sponsored/enforced atheism?
They are much more advance in many ways in China and have had 75 years of state sponsored atheism that will not be easily undone. I don’t think christianity suits the Chinese mind or culture or outlook I think if they wanted religion they mostly go back to the old ones. I just cannot see xtianity gaining much of a foothold in China. But then, who knows? Religion can do funny things to people.
Are you in favor of state sponsored/enforced atheism?
