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About a thousand years ago, Chinese philosopher Yuanwu wrote in a letter to a friend:
“Did Bodhidharma actually bring this teaching when he came from the West? (came from India to China). All he did was to point out the true nature (unconditioned nature) that each and every person inherently possesses, to enable people to thoroughly emerge clear and pure from the orbit of delusion and not be stained and defiled by all their erroneous knowledge and consciousness and false thoughts and judgments.”
(quoted from the book ‘ZEN LETTERS - Teachings of Yuanwu’ - translated by J.C. Cleary and Thomas Cleary
About a thousand years ago, Chinese philosopher Yuanwu wrote in a letter to a friend:
“Did Bodhidharma actually bring this teaching when he came from the West? (came from India to China). All he did was to point out the true nature (unconditioned nature) that each and every person inherently possesses, to enable people to thoroughly emerge clear and pure from the orbit of delusion and not be stained and defiled by all their erroneous knowledge and consciousness and false thoughts and judgments.”
(quoted from the book ‘ZEN LETTERS - Teachings of Yuanwu’ - translated by J.C. Cleary and Thomas Cleary)
Zen master Huanglong comments:
“The Way does not need cultivation - just don’t defile it. Zen does not need study - the important thing is stopping the mind. When the mind is stopped, there is no rumination. Because it is not cultivated, you walk on the Way at every step. When there is no rumination, there is no world to transcend. Because it is not cultivated, there is no Way to seek.”
(quoted from the book, ‘ZEN ESSENCE -The Science of Freedom’ - translated and edited by Thomas Cleary)
Every happy hour the hedgehog comes to the Pig and Whistle for a McIvor in water and says the same thing to whoever will listen. No one ever wants to hear his one great thing. Finally, on a quiet day, the bartender relented, said, “Yes,” and prepared for a long-winded harangue. The hedgehog reached into his wallet and slid a photo across the counter.
Unsmoked: “Did Bodhidharma actually bring this teaching when he came from the West? (came from India to China). All he did was to point out the true nature (unconditioned nature) that each and every person inherently possesses, to enable people to thoroughly emerge clear and pure from the orbit of delusion and not be stained and defiled by all their erroneous knowledge and consciousness and false thoughts and judgments.”
How does anyone know that we inherently possess a “true nature”? Please define. Does this imply we are inherently “good”? If so, bullshit.
Zen does not need study - the important thing is stopping the mind. When the mind is stopped, there is no rumination.
I don’t believe anyone can “stop the mind.” Brains are made to think and that’s what the organ does, whether we want it to or not. We can lose our awareness of thinking by focusing our attention onto something else, but that is different than stopping the mind. Maybe I’m quibbling about semantics, but, the phrase is inappropriate and it annoys me when I see or hear it.
I liked the last little anecdote that included the photo of the shell. Looking at an image….esp. a beautiful one…. is a good way to cease thinking in words, which is very restful. However, again…it may seem like “:stopping the mind”, but of course, it isn’t.
Zen does not need study - the important thing is stopping the mind. When the mind is stopped, there is no rumination.
I don’t believe anyone can “stop the mind.” Brains are made to think and that’s what the organ does, whether we want it to or not. We can lose our awareness of thinking by focusing our attention onto something else, but that is different than stopping the mind. Maybe I’m quibbling about semantics, but, the phrase is inappropriate and it annoys me when I see or hear it.
Yeah, there’s a problem with the Zen Master saying that “when the mind is stopped, there is no rumination.” Did he ruminate about this before saying it? If the mind was truly stopped, he was unconscious, and doesn’t know what he did in that state. If he was no unconscious, then he was registering data in order to be able to say something about it later. Some rumination was going on.
Stopping the mind doesn’t mean obliterating it, only stopping the chatter of that part that keeps telling a story of how things are, judging, evaluating, comparing, wondering what to do next, worrying about others opinions, polishing it’s self-image, etc., etc., etc. Being caught up in all that sort of stuff is like being asleep, dreaming. Waking up is perhaps a better phrase than “stopping the mind.”
“The ephemeral is potentially both wonderful and horrible. Those who can bring their memory, their reason, and their emotional capacity to an event are prepared to be transported by the singularity of the moment, perhaps to achieve an indescribable ecstasy. These peak experiences can then become the basis for waves of narrative extension, and they
might become even more wonderful through the retelling. Those who come to the same event with dulled memory,
lazy reason, and emotional indifference are merely subjects for manipulation—not sentient human beings, but dead to
the authentic significance of the moment.”
Karl E. Scheibe, in Joseph de Rivera & Theodore R. Sarbin (eds.) (1998) Believed-in Imaginings: The Narrative Construction of Reality. p.62
MAGIC THEATER
Do not allow a fool into the temple,
Cast aside the sleeper for that day,
Only those with calm bright eyes can enter,
No one not awake can know our play.
Our stage will show you horror and bright glory,
Emptiness beyond what we can say,
The ticket for admission to this story—
Keep the chattering monkey mind at bay.
CHANGES
What is always changing
With permutations rearranging
The flow of night and day
The Ocean in it’s play
The drops of foam and spray
What, indeed, are they
But that which does not change
And if this seems too strange
The only thing to say
Take it all away.
That’s fine, and I have no problem with meditation. Just the idea that one can completely rid oneself of thought while in a waking state is bullshit, because then you would never have any capacity to describe what had been experienced.
Unsmoked: “Did Bodhidharma actually bring this teaching when he came from the West? (came from India to China). All he did was to point out the true nature (unconditioned nature) that each and every person inherently possesses, to enable people to thoroughly emerge clear and pure from the orbit of delusion and not be stained and defiled by all their erroneous knowledge and consciousness and false thoughts and judgments.”
How does anyone know that we inherently possess a “true nature”? Please define. Does this imply we are inherently “good”? If so, bullshit.
Zen does not need study - the important thing is stopping the mind. When the mind is stopped, there is no rumination.
I don’t believe anyone can “stop the mind.” Brains are made to think and that’s what the organ does, whether we want it to or not. We can lose our awareness of thinking by focusing our attention onto something else, but that is different than stopping the mind. Maybe I’m quibbling about semantics, but, the phrase is inappropriate and it annoys me when I see or hear it.
I liked the last little anecdote that included the photo of the shell. Looking at an image….esp. a beautiful one…. is a good way to cease thinking in words, which is very restful. However, again…it may seem like “:stopping the mind”, but of course, it isn’t.
“The important thing is stopping the mind.”
If the gist of this is understood
sorrow loses its power.
Without the enervating effect of humoring one’s moods and whims
action gains power.
“The Way does not require cultivation - just don’t pollute it.
. . . If you want to understand the Way directly, the normal mind is the way.”
gistn2 : the main point of a matter : ESSENCE (Webster)
indulgevb1 a : to give free rein to - syn HUMOR . . . . . HUMOR stresses a yielding to a person’s moods or whims
Unsmoked: “The important thing is stopping the mind.”
If the gist of this is understood
sorrow loses its power.
Without the enervating effect of humoring one’s moods and whims
action gains power.
So, the goal is to reach the same level of consciousness as a Golden Retriever?
That’s not the gist of it. Golden Retrievers don’t appreciate seeing a snail climbing an alder tree. Neither does a person mulling over God or Zen enlightenment or global warming or their loss of innocence.
“Sometimes I think I could just step aside, and let it all go by like a torrent.” (paraphrasing Thoreau)
Just the idea that one can completely rid oneself of thought while in a waking state is bullshit…
Exhibit A
Hey, W. Collins. LOL. That was good. A great example of someone who is completely bereft of thought but still walking and talking. She’s completely clueless and only apparently conscious.
Die fröhliche Wissenschaft - 06 June 2011 03:47 AM
W. Collins - 05 June 2011 09:39 AM
Ecurb Noselrub - 05 June 2011 09:26 AM
Just the idea that one can completely rid oneself of thought while in a waking state is bullshit…
Exhibit A
Hey, W. Collins. LOL. That was good. A great example of someone who is completely bereft of thought but still walking and talking. She’s completely clueless and only apparently conscious.
“Ask the stone beneath the wall
Ask the snail beneath the stone
Are there any stars at all….
Like an eagle in the sky
Tell me if Air is strong….”
Incredible String Band
Earth water fire and air
met together in a garden fair
put in a basket bound with skin
if you answer this riddle
you’ll never begin—- Incredible string band
