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“The original Buddha-nature of all living beings is like the bright moon in the sky - it is only because it is covered by floating clouds that it cannot appear. Yet, few people believe their inherent mind is Buddha. They are wrapped up in illusions, cravings, resentments, and other afflictions (clouds), all because they love the cave of ignorance.” - Zen master Fenyang
inherent adj : involved in the constitution or essential character of something : INTRINSIC
The ‘bright moon in the sky’ isn’t a goal to be achieved. Most of us are attached to our illusions, cravings, resentments and other afflictions. “Someone asked Fenyang, “What is the work of a teaching master?” Fenyang replied, “Impersonally guiding those with affinity.”
My guess is that ‘those with affinity’ are those who are fed up with their illusions, cravings, resentments and other afflictions; those who have the patience to watch thoughts darting around in the mind; patience to watch the ‘clouds’ passing over the moon.
While in Japan I asked average people if they were interested in Zen. “Oh, no! Too difficult! Too difficult!”
(Fenyang quoted from, ‘ZEN ESSENCE - The Science of Freedom’ - translated and edited by Thomas Cleary)
“The original Buddha-nature of all living beings is like the bright moon in the sky - it is only because it is covered by floating clouds that it cannot appear. Yet, few people believe their inherent mind is Buddha. They are wrapped up in illusions, cravings, resentments, and other afflictions (clouds), all because they love the cave of ignorance.” - Zen master Fenyang
inherent adj : involved in the constitution or essential character of something : INTRINSIC
The ‘bright moon in the sky’ isn’t a goal to be achieved.
What kills me is that unsmoked gets a pass on this “bright moon in the sky” crap, and I get a loud chorus of WOOOO when I suggest that the universe is a thought. Unsmoked is more wrapped up in Woo than anyone here, but he gets pats on the back because he’s not a theist. “The inherent mind is Buddha.” There is definitely a double standard around here.
“The original Buddha-nature of all living beings is like the bright moon in the sky - it is only because it is covered by floating clouds that it cannot appear. Yet, few people believe their inherent mind is Buddha. They are wrapped up in illusions, cravings, resentments, and other afflictions (clouds), all because they love the cave of ignorance.” - Zen master Fenyang
inherent adj : involved in the constitution or essential character of something : INTRINSIC
The ‘bright moon in the sky’ isn’t a goal to be achieved.
What kills me is that unsmoked gets a pass on this “bright moon in the sky” crap, and I get a loud chorus of WOOOO when I suggest that the universe is a thought. Unsmoked is more wrapped up in Woo than anyone here, but he gets pats on the back because he’s not a theist. “The inherent mind is Buddha.” There is definitely a double standard around here.
What are you talking about? Lots of people here think that Buddhism is crap, including a lot of Zen masters who aren’t here. “Burn the Buddha!” “You stink of Zen!” Those are very common expressions. What makes you think that Zen slogans and sayings are not just more clouds obscuring the bright moon of original untrammeled mind? Is it because the untrammeled mind is anathema to Christians?
What are you talking about? Lots of people here think that Buddhism is crap, including a lot of Zen masters who aren’t here. “Burn the Buddha!” “You stink of Zen!” Those are very common expressions. What makes you think that Zen slogans and sayings are not just more clouds obscuring the bright moon of original untrammeled mind? Is it because the untrammeled mind is anathema to Christians?
No, it’s because what ever is said by a Buddhist is never spoken in plain language. Just say it like Thomas Jefferson: “I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. ” I can understand that. It’s even on his memorial in DC.
What are you talking about? Lots of people here think that Buddhism is crap, including a lot of Zen masters who aren’t here. “Burn the Buddha!” “You stink of Zen!” Those are very common expressions. What makes you think that Zen slogans and sayings are not just more clouds obscuring the bright moon of original untrammeled mind? Is it because the untrammeled mind is anathema to Christians?
No, it’s because what ever is said by a Buddhist is never spoken in plain language. Just say it like Thomas Jefferson: “I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. ” I can understand that. It’s even on his memorial in DC.
To understand is more beneficial and important than to just simply receive. A notion most Christians are unfamiliar with.
Just as the fletcher fashions an arrow, so too does a man fashion his own mind. To fashion the arrow a fletcher needs something to whittle and carve; likewise, the mind requires something to think on.
“The original Buddha-nature of all living beings is like the bright moon in the sky - it is only because it is covered by floating clouds that it cannot appear. Yet, few people believe their inherent mind is Buddha. They are wrapped up in illusions, cravings, resentments, and other afflictions (clouds), all because they love the cave of ignorance.” - Zen master Fenyang
inherent adj : involved in the constitution or essential character of something : INTRINSIC
The ‘bright moon in the sky’ isn’t a goal to be achieved.
What kills me is that unsmoked gets a pass on this “bright moon in the sky” crap, and I get a loud chorus of WOOOO when I suggest that the universe is a thought. Unsmoked is more wrapped up in Woo than anyone here, but he gets pats on the back because he’s not a theist. “The inherent mind is Buddha.” There is definitely a double standard around here.
No double standard with me, Bruce. Buddhist woo carries as much weight with me as christian woo, it’s just far less invasive and boring so I don’t care enough to spend any time on it. Which is how I’d like to feel about all the rest of them, someday, god willing…..
What kills me is that unsmoked gets a pass on this “bright moon in the sky” crap, and I get a loud chorus of WOOOO when I suggest that the universe is a thought.
Probably a failure of reading comprehension due to personal biases and the lack of intellectual self-discipline to keep your emotions from hijacking your intellect regarding issues of religion.
I agree that some of Unsmoked’s Buddha shite is crap, but most of it just has to be translated from “flirting with woo” into “no bullshit”. I’d prefer he do the translating ahead of time, because I suspect he is flirting with woo much of the time (it’s not usually very clear), but I personally try to give the benefit of the doubt whenever I can. The basic principles of Christianity don’t really leave much room for that, whereas Buddhism (particularly Western Buddhism) generally does. A lot of Buddhism quickly leaves that benefit of doubt behind, but Unsmoked’s personal brand usually doesn’t.
Is it hard to see more rational religious beliefs being contrast against your own, even indirectly?
I guess I can see that. Maybe it’ll help you to tweak them so they’re not such an assault on your rational mind (your Buddha mind), or not such an offense to reason? Christianity can’t fully avoid that unless it’s taken to the fully intellectually honest and responsible point of being considered meaningful mythology, but a lot of Christians actually do get fairly close.
I guess I can see that. Maybe it’ll help you to tweak them so they’re not such an assault on your rational mind (your Buddha mind),
So Buddha gets credit with you for the rational mind? Why call it a “Buddha mind” at all?
I wouldn’t, personally—just translating what it means when someone like Unsmoked uses it.
Ecurb Noselrub - 28 May 2010 09:15 AM
It’s meaningless.
Depending upon the source and context, that often just means “I don’t understand that” or “that doesn’t conform to my preconceptions”. Seems that’s fairly likely in this case.
What are you talking about? Lots of people here think that Buddhism is crap, including a lot of Zen masters who aren’t here. “Burn the Buddha!” “You stink of Zen!” These are very common expressions. What makes you think that Zen slogans and sayings are not just more clouds obscuring the bright moon of original untrammeled mind? Is it because the untrammeled mind is anathema to Christians?
No, it’s because what ever is said by a Buddhist is never spoken in plain language. Just say it like Thomas Jefferson: “I have sworn on the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. ” I can understand that. It’s even on his memorial in DC.
I suspect that for you, plain language is Christian language. “Only when you become like a little child can you enter the kingdom of heaven.” A little child has a relatively untrammeled mind. A little child can stand by a window on a rainy day and watch the drops of water running down the glass - completely attentive, absorbed.
Zen master Mazu wrote: “The Way does not require cultivation - just don’t pollute it. What is pollution? As long as you have a fluctuating mind fabricating artificialities and contrivances, all of this is pollution. If you want to understand the Way directly, the normal mind is the Way. What I mean by the normal mind is the mind without artificiality, without subjective judgments, without grasping or rejection.”
I can imagine that this is gobbledygook to most Christians; maybe to most Westerners. Did Jesus say anything like this? Yet, what is so obscure about it? ‘Artificial’ means man-made. ‘Artificial’ means lacking in natural or spontaneous quality. A ‘contrivance’ is an artificial arrangement or development.
The Zen I’m talking about is science - science of the mind. Can thoughts subside in a normal, effortless way? Can anger and jealousy exist without thoughts? This kind of scientific observation can be conducted on a crowded bus, or while stuck in traffic gridlock. A budding road-rage? Can I drop it like a hot potato; forget about my dinner getting cold, and relax? Can I watch the mind letting go of the stupid thing my boss said and relax? It is watching your own mind, your own thoughts the way a child might watch raindrops running down a windowpane. Not daydreaming. Careful observation. Those with no affinity for Zen say, “Oh, great! Become like a zombie! Become a vegetable! Don’t plan ahead how you’re going to deal with problems!”
“The ground of mind does not produce useless plants.” This isn’t to be taken on faith. If a scientist is skeptical about a colleague’s discovery, he conducts his own experiments to see what the results are. The scientific claim: mental peace and quiet is more creative (produces more creative responses) than mental stewing and effort.
Translation for Bruce: “Be still, and know that I am God.” “Why do you worry? It doesn’t add a single hair to your head.”
(Mazu quoted from ‘ZEN ESSENCE - The Science of Freedom’ - translated and edited by Thomas Cleary)
“The original Buddha-nature of all living beings is like the bright moon in the sky - it is only because it is covered by floating clouds that it cannot appear. Yet, few people believe their inherent mind is Buddha. They are wrapped up in illusions, cravings, resentments, and other afflictions (clouds), all because they love the cave of ignorance.” - Zen master Fenyang
inherent adj : involved in the constitution or essential character of something : INTRINSIC
The ‘bright moon in the sky’ isn’t a goal to be achieved.
What kills me is that unsmoked gets a pass on this “bright moon in the sky” crap, and I get a loud chorus of WOOOO when I suggest that the universe is a thought. Unsmoked is more wrapped up in Woo than anyone here, but he gets pats on the back because he’s not a theist. “The inherent mind is Buddha.” There is definitely a double standard around here.
No double standard with me, Bruce. Buddhist woo carries as much weight with me as christian woo, it’s just far less invasive and boring so I don’t care enough to spend any time on it. Which is how I’d like to feel about all the rest of them, someday, god willing…..
“Few people believe their inherent mind is Buddha.” - Zen master Fenyang
translation for Bruce: “Be still, and know that I am God.”
translation for Gad: The universe is conscious and I am it.
translation for Bruce: “Be still, and know that I am God.”
OK, now you’re talking my language.
Buddhism is like an automobile. There are many types of automobiles; SUV’s, trucks, cars, vans, buggies, jeeps, etc. All of these can be adjusted to fit your needs, and can be further modified to serve a certain purpose. Do you want to go as fast as possible? Do you want to go off-road racing? Do you want to acquire speed as quickly as possible? Do you want to go drifting? Do you want to have great steering? Or do you simply want to get from point A to point B? Just like an automobile can serve every single one of these purposes with some tweaking, so too does Buddhism work in the same way. The difference? Where as automobiles are formatted completely physical, Buddhism is ingrained in the tweaking of the mind. When you are first analyzing Buddhism, imagine as if you are choosing your very first automobile. There’s no “right” automobile; there’s no “right” Buddhism. There’s no “woo.”
Miraculous Power One day the Buddha was waiting by the river bank for a boat to ferry him across the river. An ascetic passed by and proudly showed off his miraculous power, crossing the river back and forth by treading over the water.
The Buddha smiled and asked him, “How long did you train to attain such power?”
“It took me thirty years!”, said the ascetic.
The Buddha replied, “Thirty years? Well, I can cross the river using the boat for only one penny!”
translation for Bruce: “Be still, and know that I am God.”
OK, now you’re talking my language.
Buddhism is like an automobile. There are many types of automobiles; SUV’s, trucks, cars, vans, buggies, jeeps, etc. All of these can be adjusted to fit your needs, and can be further modified to serve a certain purpose. Do you want to go as fast as possible? Do you want to go off-road racing? Do you want to acquire speed as quickly as possible? Do you want to go drifting? Do you want to have great steering? Or do you simply want to get from point A to point B? Just like an automobile can serve every single one of these purposes with some tweaking, so too does Buddhism work in the same way. The difference? Where as automobiles are formatted completely physical, Buddhism is ingrained in the tweaking of the mind. When you are first analyzing Buddhism, imagine as if you are choosing your very first automobile. There’s no “right” automobile; there’s no “right” Buddhism. There’s no “woo.”
Thus spoke (in the voice of Tony Robbins) the Woo….
