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Teuchter was taught as a small child that certain extraordinary personages must be taken into account, notably the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, jeezuz and santa claus. Unfortunately, his education in regard to these luminaries was largely neglected. For example, he was never enrolled in a Sunday school. The few times little Teuchter was dragged to a Presbyterian church, the sermons sounded to him like the ravings of a madman, going on about god smiting the trilobytes, and someone living inside a fish, and some old coot sitting in a bucket of ashes because god put boils on his ass.
Therefore, he has some fundamental questions about the biography of jeezuz, and more particularly his mother, that he would humbly put before his fellow Forumites, before god smites the Forumites.
1. Did Mary consent to being impregnated by god?
2. Was Mary already married to Joseph when god impregnated her?
3. Assuming the answer to no. 1 is no, when did Mary realize that jeezuz’ father was god?
Teuchter was taught as a small child that certain extraordinary personages must be taken into account, notably the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, jeezuz and santa claus. Unfortunately, his education in regard to these luminaries was largely neglected. For example, he was never enrolled in a Sunday school. The few times little Teuchter was dragged to a Presbyterian church, the sermons sounded to him like the ravings of a madman, going on about god smiting the trilobytes, and someone living inside a fish, and some old coot sitting in a bucket of ashes because god put boils on his ass.
Therefore, he has some fundamental questions about the biography of jeezuz, and more particularly his mother, that he would humbly put before his fellow Forumites, before god smites the Forumites.
1. Did Mary consent to being impregnated by god?
2. Was Mary already married to Joseph when god impregnated her?
3. Assuming the answer to no. 1 is no, when did Mary realize that jeezuz’ father was god?
I suppose that many young women find themselves pregnant and can’t remember having had sex. One minute they’re having a good time at a party, and the next minute they are waking up alone in a hayloft with a hangover. So Mary gets engaged to this really nice carpenter, and three months into the engagement she starts craving ice cream. Oh, oh. “Joseph, something very strange has happened . . .”
I admit that there are a thousand other possible explanations for Mary’s pregnancy, but all sane people can rest assured that her unborn child wasn’t sired by the creator of the Universe; well, maybe by a long string of creations culminating in the baker’s son.
1. Did Mary consent to being impregnated by god?
2. Was Mary already married to Joseph when god impregnated her?
3. Assuming the answer to no. 1 is no, when did Mary realize that jeezuz’ father was god?
Seems like I heard the answers to these before but forgot. Bruce will answer these in a historically factual manner I’m sure.
1. I think she got the heads up and saw it coming.
2. I think I heard it both ways.
3. When she found out she was pregnant.
OK, cat’s out of the bag: I’m an atheist. There. I said it.
But I’m asking about the narrative. It would be like, “Who was on the raft with Huck Finn.”
Whether you think the book was a ripping good yarn, or the inerrant word of Samuel Clemens, the correct answer is “Jim.”
So let’s not worry about whether the story is true or not. I’m curious about whether, in the narrative, Mary consented to being impregnated by god.
I can’t believe I missed that. I’ve always found it hard to put myself in a woman’s shoes when it comes to having someone growing in one’s belly. We need to discuss the whole surrogate mother thing. Maybe He ran an ad in the classified and Mary answered it. WANTED: ATTRACTIVE YOUNG JEWESS WHO BELIEVES WHOLEHEARTEDLY IN TORAH PROPHECIES. DISCRETION GUARANTEED. GENEROUS CONPENSATION.
It’s like a whole OT chapter is missing. BRIDE OF GOD. I mean, why couldn’t God have his own wife instead of having to advertise for a surrogate?
P.S. We’re just going to flounder until Bruce weighs in.
I seem to remember from art class that we studied several paintings depicting an important biblical scene in which an “angel” approaches Mary and tells her that she has been chosen as the lucky winner who will become impregnated by God. From what I was told in class, there was a bit of “Oh, why me?” and then Mary agrees to do her duty.
Joseph wasn’t in any of the paintings as far as I can recall, so maybe she roped him in later on.
Therefore, he has some fundamental questions about the biography of jeezuz, and more particularly his mother, that he would humbly put before his fellow Forumites, before god smites the Forumites.
1. Did Mary consent to being impregnated by god?
2. Was Mary already married to Joseph when god impregnated her?
3. Assuming the answer to no. 1 is no, when did Mary realize that jeezuz’ father was god?
I think you are actually asking for information here, so here goes. The only real explanation of what Mary experienced is found in Luke 1. Luke may have visited Jerusalem with Paul in about 58, and may have had a chance to interview Mary, so maybe that’s where he got his data. Here’s what he wrote:
Luke 1:26 Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”[c]
29 But when she saw him,[d] she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God. 36 Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing will be impossible.” 38 Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.”
So, the answers to your questions are:
1. Did Mary consent to being impregnated by god? Yes. Verse 38 is her consent.
2. Was Mary already married to Joseph when god impregnated her? No, but almost. She was “betrothed”, which means basically that she was under contract but the marriage had not been consummated. See verse 27. The marriage was probably arranged, but she could probably have vetoed it. See Fiddler on the Roof.
3. Assuming the answer to no. 1 is no, when did Mary realize that jeezuz’ father was god?
In the angelic encounter, this was explained to her in verse 35, so her’s was an informed consent.
Well done, ecurb. That is exactly what I was asking, and not for the usual snarky reasons (although, now that I am armed with this information, I may find some unworthy sarcastic use for it later.)
I was thinking about Leda and the Swan, by Yeats, and wondering if the Biblical narrative was as informative as the roman narrative was about the begitting and begatting of their gods. Sounds like they were, although in a pretty much G version compared to the roman version, as recounted by Yeats.
What do women think about what men think about virginity? Isn’t it degrading, superficial, narcissitic and exploitive for men to place a value on virginity? To this day, probably many men do, probably mostly religious men. Muslims are the worst, not only in real life present day terms but in the Heaven martyr prospect too (there’s a backward example). Regardless of the mores of the times, doesn’t that make God a male chauvinist asshole?
1. Did Mary consent to being impregnated by god?
2. Was Mary already married to Joseph when god impregnated her?
3. Assuming the answer to no. 1 is no, when did Mary realize that jeezuz’ father was god?
Thats like asking Mithras if he got to choose the rock he was born from or God just assigned it.
Thats why these things are called mythology, they are not supposed to make sense. If they made sense they would be reality, and most of us know better than that.
