During the process of writing my book on the social and neurological consequences of belief systems I also looked into the pre-Sumerian information gathered over the last century from thousands of clay tablets found in the Middle East. The reason this information is so important is not only because of the amount of validation involved but what the information points to. But here’s the problem, anyone in the academic arena will not touch this information for fear of being excluded from ever getting their projects funded, and rightfully so. I on the other hand am not confined to being funded which is why I included this information in my book. If it’s true it settles the long debate over evolution and Intelligent Design and it also pulls the rug out from under all three world religions.  Part III of my book, To Believe Or Not To Believe: The Social and Neurological Consequences of Belief Systems , covers this topic. Rahasya Poe, http://www.RahasyaPoe.com

I don’t think there is (or ever has been actually) a debate between evolution and Intelligent Design theory regardless of what the Sumerians can tell us about origins.

Thanks for the offer to buy your book and the link to your insightful musings.

Look, I know Chico, California is basically one giant bong stuck between Orland & Cohasset, but maybe you should lay off the bud for awhile and suck down some Sierra Nevada Pale Ales and bring yourself back to earth for a respite.  I mean, I read your article:

http://www.rahasyapoe.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86:goodnews&catid=35:articles&Itemid=56

Some of the greatest thinkers, philosophers, and more recently, scientists of our time have pondered something called “spiritual evolution.” You could define spiritual evolution as the esoteric, philosophical, theological, or spiritual idea that nature and human beings evolve along a predetermined cosmological pattern or ascent, or in accordance with certain predetermined potentials. However, more recently, with the input of biologists such as Bruce Lipton, it appears that we are entering another level where human consciousness is playing a part in this cosmic dance as cocreators on every level, from the subatomic to the macrocosmic level. This is called “epigeneses,” which is based on the idea that what we call “mind” is a basic creative impulse that is appearing in us partly because of the suffering created by our unconscious mistakes and our need to alleviate it by aligning ourselves with nature. This is causing a global shift of awareness from “matter creates consciousness” to “consciousness creates matter.”

And if consciousness creates matter, what creates consciousness?  I would have thought it was the neuronal loops in our brains, but that’s matter isn’t it?  And then you are chasing your tail:  matter creates consciousness, which creates matter, which creates … Jeez, I’m getting dizzy.

If you have discovered the 5th law of thermodynamics, I smell a nobel!

Then there was this:

Unless we make the arrogant assumption that we, as human beings, are the pinnacle of what the creative force of the universe is capable of, then, based on billions of years of solid evidence, we, as planetary beings/cells, will start to connect with each other to form another level of being, a planetary being or global brain/consciousness. We can see this already happening on the external level as the coming together of the United States, the European Union, many world organizations seeking unification, and more recently the Internet.

Well said!  We all think with great nostalgia upon that moment of peace and brotherhood that was the British Empire, and my planetary being/cells really vibrate when I think of going to Walmart to buy socks made by 3rd world workers, with whom I am locked in a great big global brain/consciousness hug.

Dear Dizzy,

You do know you are on the Reason Project, “reason” being the key word. I don’t smoke pot and everything that I write about is backed up with the research of many scientists and researchers over many years.  So…with all due respect, go out and investigate and get back to me…maybe start with the Double Slit Experiment to see that consciousness does have an affect on matter.  This has been the single most paradigm shift in the thinking of the scientific community; to realize that consciousness affects matter and may even…well, enough for today.  Thanks for your response though, it’s always good to have feedback but I am sorry my article made you dizzy

Rahasya - 18 January 2010 07:15 PM

Dear Dizzy,

You do know you are on the Reason Project, “reason” being the key word. I don’t smoke pot and everything that I write about is backed up with the research of many scientists and researchers over many years.  So…with all due respect, go out and investigate and get back to me…maybe start with the Double Slit Experiment to see that consciousness does have an affect on matter.  This has been the single most paradigm shift in the thinking of the scientific community; to realize that consciousness affects matter and may even…well, enough for today.  Thanks for your response though, it’s always good to have feedback but I am sorry my article made you dizzy

I assume you are referring to me.

I once heard a physicist say, “If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don’t understand quantum mechanics.”  So I don’t pretend to understand quantum mechanics,

I do understand the part of the double slit experiment about the wave, and the part about the particle, but I missed the the part where consciousness affects either the wave or the particle.  Perhaps you could cite some of “the research of many scientists and researchers over many years” on this point.

Or maybe instead of the double-slit experiment, you meant to allude to Schrodinger’s cat.  But of course, Schrodinger’s thought experiment was not intended to explain macro phenomena, and more importantly, the observing consciousness did not CREATE the cat in any interpretation I have ever heard of.

Therefore, you assertion that there is “a global shift of awareness from ‘matter creates consciousness’ to ‘consciousness creates matter’” remains a statement which flies in the face of modern neurobiology.  But if you are sure that this claim is supported by “the research of many scientists and researchers over many years,” please provide a link to at least some of the work of these scientists and researchers. 

Until then, I am compelled to believe you are talking less about Schrodinger’s cat than Geller’s spoon.

This is the latest woo wave bullshit. The woo train never stops…....

I’m just going to comment on the cover design here. Anyone who approves of his thoughts being wrapped in nail-salon-fucks-chiropractic-office esthetics is a loser.

Count me in among the epigenesists. I feel all epi’ed already.

Rahasya - 18 January 2010 07:15 PM

You do know you are on the Reason Project, “reason” being the key word.

We know, do you? No one who is reasonable is going to by into this crap.

WOW. Mr Poe needs to read ‘Quantum Gods’ by Victor Stenger..badly. And in the forward by Micheal Shermer he will quickly learn what the term ‘flapdoodle’ means.

Wave-particle duality? Please.

This is Deepak Chopra garbage. burt will probably respond favorably to it ,but to most others? Post-modernist ‘flapdoodle’

Same ole argument from incredulity. Because something is really strange and we do not understand it fully, does not mean it is ‘other worldy’

Just take a deep breath and go back and study some more on what the Sumerians did. I’ll bet Mr. Poe loved the recent movie “the Fourth Kind’ Beware of Nome Alaska!

GAD - 18 January 2010 10:27 PM

This is the latest woo wave bullshit. The woo train never stops…....

Tell me about it. Chugga chugga chugga chugga WOO WOO!

I agree that irrational belief is damaging, but using quantum flapdoodle to fight it is just exchanging one ridiculous idea for another idea that’s just as absurd.

I have read all of the responses on my post…I’m not sure what to say at this point without getting condescending. I don’t want to continue this but in case there’s a little interest out there you should listen to what people like Sam Harris says about “mystical experiences” or what the eminent microbiologist Bruce Lipton has to say about our energetic connection with the environment on a cellular level based on 20 years of research which most biologists are agreeing with and is the basis for epigenetics. If that’s not enough, read Molecules of Emotion by Candice Pert or any other number of pioneering scientists. There’s a whole new wave of information opening up because of technology.  Remember the saying, “All truths are blasphemies when first spoken” so don’t burn me at the stake so quickly without even a thought.

What is surprising is how fast all of you discount everything without checking your facts. All I’ve heard is rhetoric from the past. Sometimes emails and posts like this can be greatly understood so be assured that I highly respect “doubt” but not to the point that it becomes disabling. Doubt, like belief should have some basis and be open to dialogue on an intellectual level. If I am wrong in anything I have written, I would want to know about it because the search for truth should be the goal of all of us. So…that being said, I wish you all well and when you feel like having an intelligent conversation I am available but I’m sorry to say that I don’t have the time to spend doing this with you.

Take care and I wish you all the very best that life has to offer,
Very sincerely, Rahasya

P.S. By the way, I think that what you are doing by adding resistance to new thoughts is very important; without it we truly would, and often do, end up in what you’re calling “woo woo land.”  And by the way, this is my tendency which is why I always put my ideas up for peer review and feedback. This is why my book has been reviewed by some of the leading neuroscientists of our time (like Dr. Andrew Newberg) to make sure my “facts” are backed up with evidence. When the evidence was slim I pointed that out and said it needs more research. Just remember to temper your doubt with a little reason and open mindedness so you don’t end up being the antithesis of what you are against. 

Well said Rahasya. Please keep us posted on your progress. And if you would like your cover art to look less cheesy let me know. I am a professional creative director and designer.

Poe, you need an update on Sam Harris and his position on mysticism-

‘Sam Harris has (since he wrote The End of Faith) admitted that he lacks the knowledge to assess the validity of psychic claims. He has clarified his position on mysticism and spiritualism. He has added this on metaphysical questions-’

“There is simply no question that people have transformative experiences as a result of engaging contemplative disciplines like meditation, and there is no question that these experiences shed some light on the nature of the human mind (any experience does, for that matter) What is highly questionable are the metaphysical claims that people tend to make on the basis of such experiences. I do not make any such claims. Nor do I support the metaphysical claims of others”

This from ‘The New Atheism’ by Victor Stenger.

So Mr Poe, you can drop Sam Harris as a source for your claims.

Again, do you believe there is really a debate between evolutionary science and Intelligent Design Theory? Why?

Why don’t you save us all the trouble and cut to the chase and tell us what the Sumerians knew that we all need to know.

Hi Eudemonia,

What a very wonderful Sam Harris quote. The English Teacher habit in me instinctively wants to remove all his “no” and “not” words and ask him to please clarify what he meant to say (I am sensitive to the ambiguity of “no” and “not”). I’ve forgotten the neuroscientist’s surname, first name Rita, author of an interesting introduction to brain and mind science and giving an overview of the history of neuroscience (together with pictures of the brain, useful and appreciated). I remember that Rita mentions in her text that neuroscientists have evidence that people who practice meditation grow a particular physical part (I forget the name, I think it might be located in the temporal lobe) of their brain. Why & what for? We dunno. But Sam’s observation that the spiritual experiences accompanying that practice and brain differentiation - depending on the individual - sometimes result in bizarre metaphysical claims of which we, here, are obviously skeptical, for obvious reasons.

Something else worth mentioning, suppose that what a person saw is available is how to remove the role of prophet, messiah, famous person, antichrist from human conversation, and was consequently dressed up by crooks who were aiming to steal content as prophet-messiah-antichrist-famous, with said crooks deliberately (aware they are lying) claiming that her role is what she said she wanted, since this fiction and straw man fallacy are what enabled the crooks to steal from her. The contribution of removing the soap box roles of prophet, messiah, fame and antichrist is that jihads rallying around a personality cult become unavailable, due to their strict categorization as past practice, as fiction, and partial deletion from human narration. John Clease was pointing directly to this in his work, Faces, in which he amply illustrates the daft folly of blindly (blithely?) following famous people for the sole reason that they are famous. What John Clease supports in Faces is following reasonable people for logical reasons, and it’s okay if the leaders we follow are famous, and it’s okay if the leaders we follow are low-profile. The point he made very well is that he wants us to use our heads, rather than blindly following any famous person’s every action. It is my sense that John Clease’s insight and work apply equally well to the bothersome religious roles of prophet, messiah and antichrist, each of which is really just another despot forming yet another personality cult dressed up in religious language.

I think that the positive contribution that the human (if existent) who fulfilled Christ’s role is available to be seen through the interpretation that he was perhaps a carpenter and probably an astute politician. I have that perspective based on the sense that remarkable results (for example, Christian influence, 2000 years) are unobtainable by accident.

Thanks again for being the vehicle through whom Sam Harris is brought to us.

Jennifer

JenniferOverington - 20 January 2010 09:51 AM

. . . I’ve forgotten the neuroscientist’s surname, first name Rita, author of an interesting introduction to brain and mind science and giving an overview of the history of neuroscience (together with pictures of the brain, useful and appreciated). I remember that Rita mentions in her text that neuroscientists have evidence that people who practice meditation grow a particular physical part (I forget the name, I think it might be located in the temporal lobe) of their brain. Why & what for? We dunno. But Sam’s observation that the spiritual experiences accompanying that practice and brain differentiation - depending on the individual - sometimes result in bizarre metaphysical claims of which we, here, are obviously skeptical, for obvious reasons. . . .

Hi Jennifer. Are you thinking of Rita Carter’s Mapping the Mind (1998)? If so, here’s what she said on page 13:

While apparently simple functions like pain are showing themselves to be more complex than might be expected, some seemingly imponderable qualities of the mind are looking to be surprisingly mechanistic. Religious belief and experience are usually regarded as beyond scientific exploration, yet neurologists at the University of California San Diego have located an area in the temporal lobe of the brain that appears to produce intense feelings of spiritual transcendence, combined with a sense of some mystical presence. Canadian neuroscientist Michael Persinger, of Laurentian University, has even managed to reproduce such feelings in otherwise unreligious people by stimulating this area. According to Persinger:

“Typically people report a presence. One time we had a strobe light going and this individual actually saw Christ in the strobe . . . [another] individual experienced God visiting her. Afterwards we looked at her EEG and there was this classic spike and slow-wave seizure over the temporal lobe at the precise time of the experience—the other parts of the brain were normal.”

The fact that we seem to have a religious hot-spot wired into our brains does not necessarily prove that the spiritual dimension is merely the product of a particular flurry of electrical activity. After all, if God exists, it figures He must have created us with some biological mechanism with which to apprehend Him. Nevertheless, it is easy to see that being able to get your God Experience from a well-placed electrode could—at the very least—undermine the precious status such states are accorded by many religions. How believers will cope with what many might see as a threat to their faith is one of many interesting challenges that brain science will throw up in the coming millennium.

This makes me wonder about where in the brain other hallucination-propelled mental operations take place. Are you familiar with Julian Jaynes and his discussions about the potential survival value of being able to hear voices in your head?

Hi Nonverbal, I think that is probably the book, but not the quote, that I had in mind. I recall reading text about meditation practice actually growing a small area of the brain (found in post-mortem examination).

I still very much appreciate the way in which Joseph LeDoux communicates the results of his work. Rita, it seems to me, makes some strong hypothetical statements, such as “if God exists…”. I appreciate Joseph LeDoux’s approach which I may, as a novice, summarize thus:
1.Let’s start with the agreement that the human brain functions in ways that are congruent with and even promote survival. (Closer to his words: this functioning brain we’ve actually got is what evolution hit upon.)
2. When observing what the human brain does do, let’s also observe: that function has absence of atrophy, therefore it is part of our survival.

I like how much Joseph LeDoux says without reference to fictional characters in story books. But the pictures in Rita Carter’s book are very friendly to a student like me, and I still think it was her book that had the bit about measurable growth.

All the best,
Jennifer