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How anyone now have a personal experience of an alleged event 2,000 years ago?
Ecurb Noselrub - 30 October 2010 07:23 PM
Through the Holy Spirit. That you don’t have this experience simply means that you can’t respond to this claim.
To sidestep any unnecessary confusion, it appears prudent to add to Ecurb’s comment that he is not referring to any old ordinary, skanky, off-the-rack spirit, but the holy Christian spirit.
I say this because the claim to be able to detect and communicate with quite particular spirits, both benevolent and otherwise, is ubiquitous throughout the history of human societies.
The weight of the evidence for the existence of all these spirits is precisely equal.
Any person truly interested in what is actually going on in the world outside his skull would pick up on this unfortunate piece of data rather quickly.
The subjective basis is the believer’s personal experience of that event.
How anyone now have a personal experience of an alleged event 2,000 years ago?
Through the Holy Spirit. That you don’t have this experience simply means that you can’t respond to this claim.
You’ve got to hand it to Bruce. If nothing else he is consistent - consistently intransigent and he never lets evidence, logic or reason get in the way of a cherished belief.
The subjective basis is the believer’s personal experience of that event.
How anyone now have a personal experience of an alleged event 2,000 years ago?
Through the Holy Spirit. That you don’t have this experience simply means that you can’t respond to this claim.
If I asserted in Court that I had personally experienced some event 200 years ago, and that the jury should therefore heed my words and find for my client, expect they’d not do so and I’d be examined for mental competency. A claim that one has personally experienced some events that reportedly occurred 2,000 years ago through a visitation of a spirit might be acceptable for that person for themselves, it lacks a certain power to influence others to do anything different in their lives not otherwise influenced by objective gains in so doing.
The subjective basis is the believer’s personal experience of that event.
How anyone now have a personal experience of an alleged event 2,000 years ago?
Through the Holy Spirit. That you don’t have this experience simply means that you can’t respond to this claim.
If I asserted in Court that I had personally experienced some event 200 years ago, and that the jury should therefore heed my words and find for my client, expect they’d not do so and I’d be examined for mental competency. A claim that one has personally experienced some events that reportedly occurred 2,000 years ago through a visitation of a spirit might be acceptable for that person for themselves, it lacks a certain power to influence others to do anything different in their lives not otherwise influenced by objective gains in so doing.
Hi everyone,
I still think that this discussion should be on its own thread? Then again since one of the definitions of the word “Preach” is to urge acceptance or abandonment of an idea or course of action, and since we are preaching to Bruce, maybe the discussion does belong in this thread.
Anyway, it is an interesting set of arguments. Bruce, you are up.
Which is why the fact that there is no evidence for the historicity of the christ event merely reaffirms my point.
No believer alive today could have have a personal experience of a non-event 2000 years ago, which further disempowers any claim to even a subjective experience. The certainty is not subjective, it is an objective conclusion based on the absolute absence of evidence. My feeling has nothing to do with it.
They have a powerful subjective subcultural experience based upon the presumed event though. The emotional connection we can experience with our fellow humans, as a community, doesn’t need to have any other actual basis in order to be pretty powerful.
They have a powerful subjective subcultural experience based upon the presumed event though. The emotional connection we can experience with our fellow humans, as a community, doesn’t need to have any other actual basis in order to be pretty powerful.
I was at a recording session once in which a Christian musician refused to play until an African doll had been removed from a shelf and taken to another room. The recording didn’t go well and this fellow complained that it was now because an African mask was on the wall behind him.
I was the one who carried the doll to the next room. It was made from an old sock stuffed with straw and wore a little black coat and barrister’s wig. A hundred years ago a witchdoctor’s client probably paid to jinx a Belgian lawyer who was practicing in the Congo.
Anyway, with the Christian now forgetting his lyrics because of the African mask, the recording engineer threw a tantrum, made some insulting remarks about superstitious Christians, and the whole session fell apart.
The subjective basis is the believer’s personal experience of that event.
How anyone now have a personal experience of an alleged event 2,000 years ago?
Through the Holy Spirit. That you don’t have this experience simply means that you can’t respond to this claim.
Bruce is right. I experience the Emperor’s New Clothes through the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That you don’t have this experience simply means that you can’t respond to this claim. I can’t believe you people don’t get that….
The subjective basis is the believer’s personal experience of that event.
How anyone now have a personal experience of an alleged event 2,000 years ago?
Through the Holy Spirit. That you don’t have this experience simply means that you can’t respond to this claim.
Bruce is right. I experience the Emperor’s New Clothes through the Flying Spaghetti Monster. That you don’t have this experience simply means that you can’t respond to this claim. I can’t believe you people don’t get that….
Damn! And it is so obvious! How could I have missed that? I will pray for forgiveness.
this aint the curb
if you cant get a higher being to stand beside you and repeat exactly what your telling me it told you to feel…
then shove it,
and get back to what you think
because thats real,
and ill hear that
if,
you have nothing to offer,
show some respect and acknowledge what you were taught said nothing of this,
just sit back and let the discussion continue
[ Edited: 14 November 2010 09:30 PM by SharpTilt ]
I sayith unto you, behold your preaching s and restith thine spellchecker and go forth to preacheth the doubt all men should have. Ask those who claim deliverance from mortality to produceth proof of thine prayer. Come forth with thine winning lottery tickets and health everlasting, delivered upon ye from kneeling and the clasping of hands. Asketh why Saint Hinn visits not a hospital to deliver his followers from pain and suffering. Sound more like Yoda and less like a scholar, less ye words will fall on deaf ears. For remember my brothers, the magic is real, with the snap of every synaptic spark. A truth no master will admit. For magic is his domain only and he covets it unto himself. So go forth and demand the truth of his domain. See the empty hand his followers extend. Ask of them to behold a real magic. Let them preach unto you until their lips turneth blue. Then behold onto them the magic comes from within and not from above. Denyeth them any faith in things not worthy. Blaspheme unto there ears until they rise off their knees. Removeth thy brothers nose rings and shackles. Free them from the inescapable sky that looms and invades their minds and hearts. Leadeth the way fearlessly, to a place that their own thoughts may belong to only the thinker. Free all men from the invader of spirits and enslaveors of the earthly realm. The only realm we will ever know.and may never really know. So goeth unto them and preach in a familiar way. Profoundly shine thine light unto their darkness and delivereth them from the sheers and cleavers of the sheppard. Amen
I sayith unto you, behold your preaching s and restith thine spellchecker and go forth to preacheth the doubt all men should have. Ask those who claim deliverance from mortality to produceth proof of thine prayer. Come forth with thine winning lottery tickets and health everlasting, delivered upon ye from kneeling and the clasping of hands. Asketh why Saint Hinn visits not a hospital to deliver his followers from pain and suffering. Sound more like Yoda and less like a scholar, less ye words will fall on deaf ears. For remember my brothers, the magic is real, with the snap of every synaptic spark. A truth no master will admit. For magic is his domain only and he covets it unto himself. So go forth and demand the truth of his domain. See the empty hand his followers extend. Ask of them to behold a real magic. Let them preach unto you until their lips turneth blue. Then behold onto them the magic comes from within and not from above. Denyeth them any faith in things not worthy. Blaspheme unto there ears until they rise off their knees. Removeth thy brothers nose rings and shackles. Free them from the inescapable sky that looms and invades their minds and hearts. Leadeth the way fearlessly, to a place that their own thoughts may belong to only the thinker. Free all men from the invader of spirits and enslaveors of the earthly realm. The only realm we will ever know.and may never really know. So goeth unto them and preach in a familiar way. Profoundly shine thine light unto their darkness and delivereth them from the sheers and cleavers of the sheppard. Amen
I sayith unto you, behold your preaching s and restith thine spellchecker and go forth to preacheth the doubt all men should have. Ask those who claim deliverance from mortality to produceth proof of thine prayer. Come forth with thine winning lottery tickets and health everlasting, delivered upon ye from kneeling and the clasping of hands. Asketh why Saint Hinn visits not a hospital to deliver his followers from pain and suffering. Sound more like Yoda and less like a scholar, less ye words will fall on deaf ears. For remember my brothers, the magic is real, with the snap of every synaptic spark. A truth no master will admit. For magic is his domain only and he covets it unto himself. So go forth and demand the truth of his domain. See the empty hand his followers extend. Ask of them to behold a real magic. Let them preach unto you until their lips turneth blue. Then behold onto them the magic comes from within and not from above. Denyeth them any faith in things not worthy. Blaspheme unto there ears until they rise off their knees. Removeth thy brothers nose rings and shackles. Free them from the inescapable sky that looms and invades their minds and hearts. Leadeth the way fearlessly, to a place that their own thoughts may belong to only the thinker. Free all men from the invader of spirits and enslaveors of the earthly realm. The only realm we will ever know.and may never really know. So goeth unto them and preach in a familiar way. Profoundly shine thine light unto their darkness and delivereth them from the sheers and cleavers of the sheppard. Amen
Suggest you stop whatever you’re taking. Soon.
Hmm, It would be easy to take your comment personally at first glance. Then it dawns on me that just maybe, you are missing the point.
It is indeed a ludicrous and outrageous rant. Over the top in every way I could fathom at the time. ( with a bit of folly ).
The topic is preaching, so I tried to preach.
I can take a poke at my method and I hope you can take one too.
Maybe you don’t see a problem with most of the people we share the planet with, thinking they will live forever. Heck, I don’t know if you think that is true for that matter. Never the less, I think that fact should change. I feel many contributors to this site would agree with that statement.
Let’s look at how best to communicate to the masses about the silly notion they will live forever. What message should best be used?
Should we expect them all to have a solid understanding about cosmology, biology, physics and psychology? If we use those languages to bring them our message i fear they will not hear it. I feel strongly about living in a world misguided by delusion and myth. I think it hinders more than it helps. As I rake through many posts here I see some people who want to look smart and not much more. They want to be seen as highly intellectual and dare I say, come off a bit self righteous. I don’t think the academic crowd is in need of as much convincing as we lowly uneducated types. ( me )
So let me have some fun. Let me try to convince some of the people here that just maybe, we could try something a bit different. Maybe my idea of thinking outside of the box is to far outside of the box. I just want to toss a lot of ideas at the wall and see what sticks, that’s all. Your comment add absolutely nothing to what I said and is the equivalent of slapping me in the face just to make me calm down. Maybe I should calm down but just maybe, You should be more riled up.
I sayith unto you, behold your preaching s and restith thine spellchecker and go forth to preacheth the doubt all men should have. Ask those who claim deliverance from mortality to produceth proof of thine prayer. Come forth with thine winning lottery tickets and health everlasting, delivered upon ye from kneeling and the clasping of hands. Asketh why Saint Hinn visits not a hospital to deliver his followers from pain and suffering. Sound more like Yoda and less like a scholar, less ye words will fall on deaf ears. For remember my brothers, the magic is real, with the snap of every synaptic spark. A truth no master will admit. For magic is his domain only and he covets it unto himself. So go forth and demand the truth of his domain. See the empty hand his followers extend. Ask of them to behold a real magic. Let them preach unto you until their lips turneth blue. Then behold onto them the magic comes from within and not from above. Denyeth them any faith in things not worthy. Blaspheme unto there ears until they rise off their knees. Removeth thy brothers nose rings and shackles. Free them from the inescapable sky that looms and invades their minds and hearts. Leadeth the way fearlessly, to a place that their own thoughts may belong to only the thinker. Free all men from the invader of spirits and enslaveors of the earthly realm. The only realm we will ever know.and may never really know. So goeth unto them and preach in a familiar way. Profoundly shine thine light unto their darkness and delivereth them from the sheers and cleavers of the sheppard. Amen
Suggest you stop whatever you’re taking. Soon.
Hmm, It would be easy to take your comment personally at first glance. Then it dawns on me that just maybe, you are missing the point.
It is indeed a ludicrous and outrageous rant. Over the top in every way I could fathom at the time. ( with a bit of folly ).
The topic is preaching, so I tried to preach.
I can take a poke at my method and I hope you can take one too.
Maybe you don’t see a problem with most of the people we share the planet with, thinking they will live forever. Heck, I don’t know if you think that is true for that matter. Never the less, I think that fact should change. I feel many contributors to this site would agree with that statement.
Let’s look at how best to communicate to the masses about the silly notion they will live forever. What message should best be used?
Should we expect them all to have a solid understanding about cosmology, biology, physics and psychology? If we use those languages to bring them our message i fear they will not hear it. I feel strongly about living in a world misguided by delusion and myth. I think it hinders more than it helps. As I rake through many posts here I see some people who want to look smart and not much more. They want to be seen as highly intellectual and dare I say, come off a bit self righteous. I don’t think the academic crowd is in need of as much convincing as we lowly uneducated types. ( me )
So let me have some fun. Let me try to convince some of the people here that just maybe, we could try something a bit different. Maybe my idea of thinking outside of the box is to far outside of the box. I just want to toss a lot of ideas at the wall and see what sticks, that’s all. Your comment add absolutely nothing to what I said and is the equivalent of slapping me in the face just to make me calm down. Maybe I should calm down but just maybe, You should be more riled up.
It’s hard to convey when your joking or being ironic on an internet forum.
There is a name for this which I don’t remember.
But when you don’t know each other well, and you can’t see the tongue in the cheek, it is easy to get the wrong end of the stick.
So when I’m not sure I ask or just let it go…I think your post was just irony Jezuz and Dennis was just joking too, but like I say I could be wrong too…does it really matter…not really.
