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In my opinion, all religions are cults! They just get the tag “religion” instead of cult when enough people buy into the superstition to give it mainstream “legitimacy”.
I’m not sure where the official cutoff is on what type of numbers are required to move one particular superstition out of the ‘cult’ category, though. It seems to me that it is accepted as being a religion by the mainstream, though one that is frowned on because they believe crazy things (which really makes me laugh, hearing a Christian say that another religion believes crazy things!)
In my opinion, all religions are cults! They just get the tag “religion” instead of cult when enough people buy into the superstition to give it mainstream “legitimacy”.
This is the problem with the word cult. I mean, if it is simply defined by membership count or the time its been around, then the word “cult” is useless.
From Dictionary.com:
cult [kuhlt]
–noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
In my opinion, all religions are cults! They just get the tag “religion” instead of cult when enough people buy into the superstition to give it mainstream “legitimacy”.
This is the problem with the word cult. I mean, if it is simply defined by membership count or the time its been around, then the word “cult” is useless.
Agreed. Here’s the definition from Merriam-Webster:
1: formal religious veneration : worship 2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual ; also : its body of adherents 3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious ; also : its body of adherents 4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults> 5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book) ; especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
Items 1 and 2 could apply to any religion. Item 3 is relative, of course, and from my perspective is why all religions are cults. It’s not until 5c that they refer to a small group of people. However, I would argue that when people use the word cult, they are using it in a context of assigning less value to that group than to one they would call a religion - and they typically do so based on the group size.
I think religions start out as cults, but go through a period of societally-pressured change where behaviors and qualities of the cult are either pruned or adapted, leading to greater accpetance by the community at large. It’s easily seen in Mormonism, polygamy being the most obvious example of a behavior being pruned.
From Dictionary.com:
cult [kuhlt]
–noun
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
Numbers 1-5, all religions seem to share that. A number of religions are guilty of having instances of number 6. Today, suicide fundamentalist muslims live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader (Bin Laden…etc), also Operation Rescue were rooted in Christianity doing Gods work and they lived outside of conventional society also in a sense they seemed it right to murder doctors and bomb clinics, and their charismatic leader would have to be the big G-O-D because he spoke to them and told them to save the “unborn/murdered babies.”
We can probably do this all day with other religions, so they seem to have instances of number 6 and i think that should count. Number 7 is just referring to the members of the religion.
Lastly, number 8 can refer to the power of prayer. In instances where people believe praying will heal them, rather than medicine. Scientology: guilty as charged…i think there’s no argument about that being a cult… But many religions, if not all, rely on the power of prayer as being a way to treat human sickness (cancer…etc) and that method is regarded as unorthodox and very unscientific.
Mormon’s are guilty on the same accord with 6 and 8. They believe God lives on a neighboring planet and that’s completely unorthodox…they too also believing in the power of prayer to aid in curing disease…and on and on about Mormon theology…but the whole God living on a planet thing is enough for me. haha
I guess, i think religions can be considered a cult…to me, they seem to have all the familiar symptoms of a cult. Guess it’s just semantics?
Has anyone read David Eller’s book “Atheism Advanced”?
He’s an anthropologist who has studied various religions extensively—
A quote “A cult is a religion you disapprove of. A religion is a cult that has gained acceptance.”
If you want a more narrow definition, I would define a cult as an organization that tries to force its adherents to a fanatic devotion to a charismatic human leader.
North Korea is a good example.
Many religions, on the other hand, try to force fanatical devotion to an imaginary “leader”—God, Allah, Jesus etc.
Has anyone read David Eller’s book “Atheism Advanced”?
He’s an anthropologist who has studied various religions extensively—
A quote “A cult is a religion you disapprove of. A religion is a cult that has gained acceptance.”
If you want a more narrow definition, I would define a cult as an organization that tries to force its adherents to a fanatic devotion to a charismatic human leader.
North Korea is a good example.
I agree with everything you say here. The quote from Eller is perfect - I have not read his book, I will look into it though.
brainimager - 14 May 2009 02:30 AM
Many religions, on the other hand, try to force fanatical devotion to an imaginary “leader”—God, Allah, Jesus etc.
I disagree with this part. Christianity has a fanatical devotion to Jesus Christ (“my lord and saviour”, etc etc). The same for Islam with Mohammed; Mormons with John Smith & Brigham Young, etc. In each case they start as a cult with their fanatical devotion to a human leader that they deify and conflate with their specific god. This is precisely why Eller’s quote is so perfect - they’re all cults, unless you believe one of them
As a former Mormon, I really resist the notion that Mormonism is a Cult and Catholicism or Protestant Christian sects are not. I often get chided for my past history with the Mormon church by those of other religious persuations as though the beliefs I were raised with are odd and the beliefs they were raised with are normal.
I’d propose, with no earned authority on this site yet, that we eliminate the category or “Cult” altogether.
In my opinion, all religions are cults! They just get the tag “religion” instead of cult when enough people buy into the superstition to give it mainstream “legitimacy”.
I’m not sure where the official cutoff is on what type of numbers are required to move one particular superstition out of the ‘cult’ category, though. It seems to me that it is accepted as being a religion by the mainstream, though one that is frowned on because they believe crazy things (which really makes me laugh, hearing a Christian say that another religion believes crazy things!)
There’s one thing that many, if not most, cults do that most, if not many, religions do not. It’s the complete isolation of an individual from their former life. I won’t say all because I’m not a person of infinite knowledge.
That seperation is a highly effective form of control that a cult will exert, often by social or even physical force, on it’s membership. I’ve not heard of an established religion (except in their extremities) doing the same. The established religions may discourage certain interactions with other people, but they don’t outright enforce it.
I agree. I think that the word “cult” used in common parlance might differ significantly from the dictionary definition. I think it’s likely that all religions started out as what we’d call a “cult”; Biblical scholar Bart Ehrman refers to the variety of early-Christian groups as Jesus Cults….
At some point, these groups either fade away into obscurity or go on to achieve some success…Cults Made Good.
Certainly the Mormons started out as such group; following a charismatic leader even to their own detriment. However, they seem to have achieved a degree of respectability…
Of more concern are these wayward splinter groups of “fundamentalist” Mormons who are led by a charismatic “prophet” who controls every aspect of his follower’s lives.
That’s pretty much what we think of as a “cult” these days…..
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