Project Reason is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit foundation devoted to spreading scientific knowledge and secular values in society. The foundation draws on the talents of prominent and creative thinkers in a wide range of disciplines to encourage critical thinking and erode the influence of dogmatism, superstition, and bigotry in our world.

Donate to Project Reason

Join the Mailing List

Sign up to receive email updates from Project Reason.

Log in

 
not a member? Join here.
Forgot your password?

Twitter and Facebook

Follow Project Reason on Twitter

The Scripture Project

Browse the Bible, Qur’an or Book of Mormon for scriptural criticism, insights and careful annotation.

Most Recently Updated Passages

Archive

Toward a Science of Morality

Sam Harris
Posted: May 7, 2010.

Print: The Huffington Post

Over the past couple of months, I seem to have conducted a public experiment in the manufacture of philosophical and scientific ideas. In February, I spoke at the 2010 TED conference, where I briefly argued that morality should be considered an undeveloped branch of science. Normally, when one speaks at a conference the resulting feedback amounts to a few conversations in the lobby during a coffee break. I had these conversations at TED, of course, and they were useful. As luck would have it, however, my talk was broadcast on the internet just as I was finishing a book on the relationship between science and human values, and this produced a blizzard of criticism at a moment when criticism could actually do me some good. I made a few efforts to direct and focus this feedback, and the result has been that for the last few weeks I have had literally thousands of people commenting upon my work, more or less in real time. I can’t say that the experience has been entirely pleasant, but there is no question that it has been useful.

If nothing else, the response to my TED talk proves that many smart people believe that something in the last few centuries of intellectual progress prevents us from making cross-cultural moral judgments—or moral judgments at all. Thousands of highly educated men and women have now written to inform me that morality is a myth, that statements about human values are without truth conditions and, therefore, nonsensical, and that concepts like “well-being” and “misery” are so poorly defined, or so susceptible to personal whim and cultural influence, that it is impossible to know anything about them. Many people also claim that a scientific foundation for morality would serve no purpose, because we can combat human evil while knowing that our notions of “good” and “evil” are unwarranted. It is always amusing when these same people then hesitate to condemn specific instances of patently abominable behavior. I don’t think one has fully enjoyed the life of the mind until one has seen a celebrated scholar defend the “contextual” legitimacy of the burqa, or a practice like female genital excision, a mere thirty seconds after announcing that his moral relativism does nothing to diminish his commitment to making the world a better place. Given my experience as a critic of religion, I must say that it has been disconcerting to see the caricature of the over-educated, atheistic moral nihilist regularly appearing in my inbox and on the blogs. I sincerely hope that people like Rick Warren have not been paying attention.

First, a disclaimer and non-apology: Many of my critics fault me for not engaging more directly with the academic literature on moral philosophy. There are two reasons why I haven’t done this: First, while I have read a fair amount of this literature, I did not arrive at my position on the relationship between human values and the rest of human knowledge by reading the work of moral philosophers; I came to it by considering the logical implications of our making continued progress in the sciences of mind. Second, I am convinced that every appearance of terms like “metaethics,” “deontology,” “noncognitivism,” “anti-realism,” “emotivism,” and the like, directly increases the amount of boredom in the universe. My goal, both in speaking at conferences like TED and in writing my book, is to start a conversation that a wider audience can engage with and find helpful. Few things would make this goal harder to achieve than for me to speak and write like an academic philosopher. Of course, some discussion of philosophy is unavoidable, but my approach is to generally make an end run around many of the views and conceptual distinctions that make academic discussions of human values so inaccessible. While this is guaranteed to annoy a few people, the prominent philosophers I’ve consulted seem to understand and support what I am doing.

Many people believe that the problem with talking about moral truth, or with asserting that there is a necessary connection between morality and well-being, is that concepts like “morality” and “well-being” must be defined with reference to specific goals and other criteria—and nothing prevents people from disagreeing about these definitions. I might claim that morality is really about maximizing well-being and that well-being entails a wide range of cognitive/emotional virtues and wholesome pleasures, but someone else will be free to say that morality depends upon worshipping the gods of the Aztecs and that well-being entails always having a terrified person locked in one’s basement, waiting to be sacrificed.

Of course, goals and conceptual definitions matter. But this holds for all phenomena and for every method we use to study them. My father, for instance, has been dead for twenty-five years. What do I mean by “dead”? Do I mean “dead” with reference to specific goals? Well, if you must, yes—goals like respiration, energy metabolism, responsiveness to stimuli, etc. The definition of “life” remains, to this day, difficult to pin down. Does this mean we can’t study life scientifically? No. The science of biology thrives despite such ambiguities. The concept of “health” is looser still: it, too, must be defined with reference to specific goals—not suffering chronic pain, not always vomiting, etc.—and these goals are continually changing. Our notion of “health” may one day be defined by goals that we cannot currently entertain with a straight face (like the goal of spontaneously regenerating a lost limb). Does this mean we can’t study health scientifically?

I wonder if there is anyone on earth who would be tempted to attack the philosophical underpinnings of medicine with questions like: “What about all the people who don’t share your goal of avoiding disease and early death? Who is to say that living a long life free of pain and debilitating illness is ‘healthy’? What makes you think that you could convince a person suffering from fatal gangrene that he is not as healthy you are?” And yet, these are precisely the kinds of objections I face when I speak about morality in terms of human and animal well-being. Is it possible to voice such doubts in human speech? Yes. But that doesn’t mean we should take them seriously.

The physicist Sean Carroll has written another essay in response to my TED talk, further arguing that one cannot derive “ought” from “is” and that a science of morality is impossible. Carroll’s essay is worth reading on its own, but in the hopes of making the difference between our views as clear as possible, I have I excerpted his main points in their entirety, and followed them with my comments.

Carroll begins:

I want to start with a hopefully non-controversial statement about what science is. Namely: science deals with empirical reality—with what happens in the world. (I.e. what “is.”) Two scientific theories may disagree in some way—“the observable universe began in a hot, dense state about 14 billion years ago” vs. “the universe has always existed at more or less the present temperature and density.” Whenever that happens, we can always imagine some sort of experiment or observation that would let us decide which one is right. The observation might be difficult or even impossible to carry out, but we can always imagine what it would entail. (Statements about the contents of the Great Library of Alexandria are perfectly empirical, even if we can’t actually go back in time to look at them.) If you have a dispute that cannot in principle be decided by recourse to observable facts about the world, your dispute is not one of science.

I agree with Carroll’s definition of “science” here—though some of his subsequent thinking seems to depend on a more restrictive definition. I especially like his point about the Library of Alexandria. Clearly, any claims we make about the contents of this library will be right or wrong, and the truth does not depend on our being able to verify such claims. We can also dismiss an infinite number of claims as obviously wrong without getting access to the relevant data. We know, for instance, that this library did not contain a copy of The Catcher in the Rye. When I speak about there being facts about human and animal well-being, this includes facts that are quantifiable and conventionally “scientific” (e.g. facts about human neurophysiology) as well as facts that we will never have access to (e.g. how happy would I have been if I had decided not to spend the evening responding to Carroll’s essay?).

With that in mind, let’s think about morality. What would it mean to have a science of morality? I think it would look have to look something like this:

Human beings seek to maximize something we choose to call “well-being” (although it might be called “utility” or “happiness” or “flourishing” or something else). The amount of well-being in a single person is a function of what is happening in that person’s brain, or at least in their body as a whole. That function can in principle be empirically measured. The total amount of well-being is a function of what happens in all of the human brains in the world, which again can in principle be measured. The job of morality is to specify what that function is, measure it, and derive conditions in the world under which it is maximized.

Good enough. I would simply broaden picture to include animals and any other conscious systems that can experience gradations of happiness and suffering—and weight them to the degree that they can experience such states. Do monkeys suffer more than mice from medical experiments? (The answer is almost surely “yes.”) If so, all other things being equal, it is worse to run experiments on monkeys than on mice.

Skipping ahead a little, Carroll makes the following claims:

I want to argue that this program is simply not possible. I’m not saying it would be difficult—I’m saying it’s impossible in principle. Morality is not part of science, however much we would like it to be. There are a large number of arguments one could advance for in support of this claim, but I’ll stick to three.

1. There’s no single definition of well-being.

People disagree about what really constitutes “well-being” (or whatever it is you think they should be maximizing). This is so perfectly obvious, it’s hard to know what to defend. Anyone who wants to argue that we can ground morality on a scientific basis has to jump through some hoops.

First, there are people who aren’t that interested in universal well-being at all. There are serial killers, and sociopaths, and racial supremacists. We don’t need to go to extremes, but the extremes certainly exist. The natural response is to simply separate out such people; “we need not worry about them,” in Harris’s formulation. Surely all right-thinking people agree on the primacy of well-being. But how do we draw the line between right-thinkers and the rest? Where precisely do we draw the line, in terms of measurable quantities? And why there? On which side of the line do we place people who believe that it’s right to torture prisoners for the greater good, or who cherish the rituals of fraternity hazing? Most particularly, what experiment can we imagine doing that tells us where to draw the line?

This is where Carroll and I begin diverge. He also seems to be conflating two separate issues: (1) He is asking how we can determine who is worth listening to. This is a reasonable question, but there is no way Carroll could answer it “precisely” and “in terms of measurable quantities” for his own field, much less for a nascent science of morality. How flakey can a Nobel laureate in physics become before he is no longer worth listening to—indeed, how many crazy things could he say about matter and space-time before he would no longer even count as a “physicist”? Hard question. But I doubt Carroll means to suggest that we must answer such questions experimentally. I assume that he can make a reasonably principled decision about whom to put on a panel at the next conference on Dark Matter without finding a neuroscientist from the year 2075 to scan every candidate’s brain and assess it for neurophysiological competence in the relevant physics. (2) Carroll also seems worried about how we can assess people’s claims regarding their inner lives, given that questions about morality and well-being necessarily refer to the character subjective experience. He even asserts that there is no possible experiment that could allow us to define well-being or to resolve differences of opinion about it. Would he say this for other mental phenomena as well? What about depression? Is it impossible to define or study this state of mind empirically? I’m not sure how deep Carroll’s skepticism runs, but much of psychology now appears to hang in the balance. Of course, Carroll might want to say that the problem of access to the data of first-person experience is what makes psychology often seem to teeter at the margin of science. He might have a point—but, if so, it would be a methodological point, not a point about the limits of scientific truth. Remember, the science of determining exactly which books were in the Library of Alexandria is stillborn and going absolutely nowhere, methodologically speaking. But this doesn’t mean we can’t be absolutely right or absolutely wrong about the relevant facts.

As for there being many people who “aren’t interested in universal well-being,” I would say that more or less everyone, myself included, is insufficiently interested in it. But we are seeking well-being in some form nonetheless, whatever we choose to call it and however narrowly we draw the circle of our moral concern. Clearly many of us (Most? All?) are not doing as good a job of this as we might. In fact, if science did nothing more than help people align their own selfish priorities—so that those who really wanted to lose weight, or spend more time with their kids, or learn another language, etc., could get what they most desired—it would surely increase the well-being of humanity. And this is to say nothing of what would happen if science could reveal depths of well-being that most of us are unaware of, thereby changing our priorities.

Carroll continues:

More importantly, it’s equally obvious that even right-thinking people don’t really agree about well-being, or how to maximize it. Here, the response is apparently that most people are simply confused (which is on the face of it perfectly plausible). Deep down they all want the same thing, but they misunderstand how to get there; hippies who believe in giving peace a chance and stern parents who believe in corporal punishment for their kids all want to maximize human flourishing, they simply haven’t been given the proper scientific resources for attaining that goal.


While I’m happy to admit that people are morally confused, I see no evidence whatsoever that they all ultimately want the same thing. The position doesn’t even seem coherent. Is it a priori necessary that people ultimately have the same idea about human well-being, or is it a contingent truth about actual human beings? Can we not even imagine people with fundamentally incompatible views of the good? (I think I can.) And if we can, what is the reason for the cosmic accident that we all happen to agree? And if that happy cosmic accident exists, it’s still merely an empirical fact; by itself, the existence of universal agreement on what is good doesn’t necessarily imply that it is good. We could all be mistaken, after all.

In the real world, right-thinking people have a lot of overlap in how they think of well-being. But the overlap isn’t exact, nor is the lack of agreement wholly a matter of misunderstanding. When two people have different views about what constitutes real well-being, there is no experiment we can imagine doing that would prove one of them to be wrong. It doesn’t mean that moral conversation is impossible, just that it’s not science.

Imagine that we had a machine that could produce any possible brain state (this would be the ultimate virtual reality device, more or less like the Matrix). This machine would allow every human being to sample all available mental states (some would not be available without changing a person’s brain, however). I think we can ignore most of the philosophical and scientific wrinkles here and simply stipulate that it is possible, or even likely, that given an infinite amount of time and perfect recall, we would agree about a range of brain states that qualify as good (as in, “Wow, that was so great, I can’t imagine anything better”) and bad (as in, “I’d rather die than experience that again.”) There might be controversy over specific states—after all, some people do like Marmite—but being members of the same species with very similar brains, we are likely to converge to remarkable degree. I might find that brain state X242358B is my absolute favorite, and Carroll might prefer X979793L, but the fear that we will radically diverge in our judgments about what constitutes well-being seems pretty far-fetched. The possibility that my hell will be someone else’s heaven, and vice versa, seems hardly worth considering. And yet, whatever divergence did occur must also depend on facts about the brains in question.

Even if there were ten thousand different ways for groups of human beings to maximally thrive (all trade-offs and personal idiosyncrasies considered), there will be many ways for them not to thrive—and the difference between luxuriating on a peak of the moral landscape and languishing in a valley of internecine horror will translate into facts that can be scientifically understood.

2. It’s not self-evident that maximizing well-being, however defined, is the proper goal of morality.

Maximizing a hypothetical well-being function is an effective way of thinking about many possible approaches to morality. But not every possible approach. In particular, it’s a manifestly consequentialist idea—what matters is the outcome, in terms of particular mental states of conscious beings. There are certainly non-consequentialist ways of approaching morality; in deontological theories, the moral good inheres in actions themselves, not in their ultimate consequences. Now, you may think that you have good arguments in favor of consequentialism. But are those truly empirical arguments? You’re going to get bored of me asking this, but: what is the experiment I could do that would distinguish which was true, consequentialism or deontological ethics?

It is true that many people believe that “there are non-consequentialist ways of approaching morality,” but I think that they are wrong. In my experience, when you scratch the surface on any deontologist, you find a consequentialist just waiting to get out. For instance, I think that Kant’s Categorical Imperative only qualifies as a rational standard of morality given the assumption that it will be generally beneficial (as J.S. Mill pointed out at the beginning of Utilitarianism). Ditto for religious morality. This is a logical point before it is an empirical one, but yes, I do think we might be able to design experiments to show that people are concerned about consequences, even when they say they aren’t. While my view of the moral landscape can be classed as “consequentialist,” this term comes with fair amount of philosophical baggage, and there are many traditional quibbles with consequentialism that do not apply to my account of morality.

The emphasis on the mental states of conscious beings, while seemingly natural, opens up many cans of worms that moral philosophers have tussled with for centuries. Imagine that we are able to quantify precisely some particular mental state that corresponds to a high level of well-being; the exact configuration of neuronal activity in which someone is healthy, in love, and enjoying a hot-fudge sundae. Clearly achieving such a state is a moral good. Now imagine that we achieve it by drugging a person so that they are unconscious, and then manipulating their central nervous system at a neuron-by-neuron level, until they share exactly the mental state of the conscious person in those conditions. Is that an equal moral good to the conditions in which they actually are healthy and in love etc.? If we make everyone happy by means of drugs or hypnosis or direct electronic stimulation of their pleasure centers, have we achieved moral perfection? If not, then clearly our definition of “well-being” is not simply a function of conscious mental states. And if not, what is it?

Clearly, we want our conscious states to track the reality of our lives. We want to be happy, but we want to be happy for the right reasons. And if we occasionally want to uncouple our mental state from our actual situation in the world (e.g. by taking powerful drugs, drinking great quantities of alcohol, etc.) we don’t want this to render us permanently delusional, however pleasant such delusion might be. There are some obvious reasons for this: We need our conscious states to be well synched to their material context, otherwise we forget to eat, ramble incoherently, and step in front of speeding cars. And most of what we value in our lives, like our connection to other people, is predicated on our being in touch with external reality and with the probable consequences of our behavior. Yes, I might be able to take a drug that would make me feel good while watching my young daughter drown in the bathtub—but I am perfectly capable of judging that I do not want to take such a drug out of concern for my (and her) well-being. Such a judgment still takes place in my conscious mind, with reference to other conscious mental states (both real and imagined). For instance, my judgment that it would be wrong to take such a drug has a lot to do with the horror I would expect to feel upon discovering that I had happily let my daughter drown. Of course, I am also thinking about the potential happiness that my daughter’s death would diminish—her own, obviously, but also that of everyone who is now, and would have been, close to her. There is nothing mysterious about this: Morality still relates to consciousness and to its changes, both actual and potential. What else could it relate to?

3. There’s no simple way to aggregate well-being over different individuals.

The big problems of morality, to state the obvious, come about because the interests of different individuals come into conflict. Even if we somehow agreed perfectly on what constituted the well-being of a single individual—or, more properly, even if we somehow “objectively measured” well-being, whatever that is supposed to mean—it would generically be the case that no achievable configuration of the world provided perfect happiness for everyone. People will typically have to sacrifice for the good of others; by paying taxes, if nothing else.

So how are we to decide how to balance one person’s well-being against another’s? To do this scientifically, we need to be able to make sense of statements like “this person’s well-being is precisely 0.762 times the well-being of that person.” What is that supposed to mean? Do we measure well-being on a linear scale, or is it logarithmic? Do we simply add up the well-beings of every individual person, or do we take the average? And would that be the arithmetic mean, or the geometric mean? Do more individuals with equal well-being each mean greater well-being overall? Who counts as an individual? Do embryos? What about dolphins? Artificially intelligent robots?

These are all good questions: Some admit of straightforward answers; others plunge us into moral paradox; none, however, prove that there are no right or wrong answers to questions of human and animal wellbeing. I discuss these issues at some length in my forthcoming book. For those who want to confront how difficult it can be to think about aggregating human well-being, I recommend Derek Parfit’s masterpiece, Reasons and Persons. I do not claim to have solved all the puzzles raised by Parfit—but I don’t think we have to.

Practically speaking, I think we have some very useful intuitions on this front. We care more about creatures that can experience a greater range of suffering and happiness—and we are right to, because suffering and happiness (defined in the widest possible sense) are all that can be cared about. Are all animal lives equivalent? No. Are all human lives equivalent? No. I have no problem admitting that certain people’s lives are more valuable than mine—I need only imagine a person whose death would create much greater suffering and foreclose much greater happiness. However, it also seems quite rational for us to collectively act as though all human lives were equally valuable. Hence, most of our laws and social institutions generally ignore differences between people. I suspect that this is a very good thing. Of course, I could be wrong about this—and that is precisely the point. If we didn’t behave this way, our world would be different, and these differences would either affect the totality of human well-being, they wouldn’t. Once again, there are answers to such questions, whether we can ever answer them in practice.

I believe that covers the heart of Carroll’s argument. Skipping ahead to final point:

And finally: pointing out that people disagree about morality is not analogous to the fact that some people are radical epistemic skeptics who don’t agree with ordinary science. That’s mixing levels of description. It is true that the tools of science cannot be used to change the mind of a committed solipsist who believes they are a brain in a vat, manipulated by an evil demon; yet, those of us who accept the presuppositions of empirical science are able to make progress. But here we are concerned only with people who have agreed to buy into all the epistemic assumptions of reality-based science—they still disagree about morality. That’s the problem. If the project of deriving ought from is were realistic, disagreements about morality would be precisely analogous to disagreements about the state of the universe fourteen billion years ago. There would be things we could imagine observing about the universe that would enable us to decide which position was right. But as far as morality is concerned, there aren’t.

The biologist P.Z. Myers has thrown his lot in with Carroll on a similar point:

I don’t think Harris’s criterion—that we can use science to justify maximizing the well-being of individuals—is valid. We can’t… Harris is smuggling in an unscientific prior in his category of well-being.

It seems to me that these two quotations converge on the core issue. Of course, it is easy enough for Carroll to assert that moral skepticism isn’t analogous to scientific skepticism, but I think he is simply wrong about this. To use Myer’s formulation, we must smuggle in an “unscientific prior” to justify any branch of science. If this isn’t a problem for physics, why should it be a problem of a science of morality? Can we prove, without recourse to any prior assumptions, that our definition of “physics” is the right one? No, because our standards of proof will be built into any definition we provide. We might observe that standard physics is better at predicting the behavior of matter than Voodoo “physics” is, but what could we say to a “physicist” whose only goal is to appease the spiritual hunger of his dead ancestors? Here, we seem to reach an impasse. And yet, no one thinks that the failure of standard physics to silence all possible dissent has any significance whatsoever; why should we demand more of a science of morality?

So, while it is possible to say that one can’t move from “is” to “ought,” we should be honest about how we get to “is” in the first place. Scientific “is” statements rest on implicit “oughts” all the way down. When I say, “Water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen,” I have uttered a quintessential statement of scientific fact. But what if someone doubts this statement? I can appeal to data from chemistry, describing the outcome of simple experiments. But in so doing, I implicitly appeal to the values of empiricism and logic. What if my interlocutor doesn’t share these values? What can I say then? What evidence could prove that we should value evidence? What logic could demonstrate the importance of logic? As it turns out, these are the wrong questions. The right question is, why should we care what such a person thinks in the first place?

So it is with the linkage between morality and well-being: To say that morality is arbitrary (or culturally constructed, or merely personal), because we must first assume that the well-being of conscious creatures is good, is exactly like saying that science is arbitrary (or culturally constructed, or merely personal), because we must first assume that a rational understanding of the universe is good. We need not enter either of these philosophical cul-de-sacs.

Carroll and Myers both believe nothing much turns on whether we find a universal foundation for morality. I disagree. Granted, the practical effects cannot be our reason for linking morality and science—we have to form our beliefs about reality based on what we think is actually true. But the consequences of moral relativism have been disastrous. And science’s failure to address the most important questions in human life has made it seem like little more than an incubator for technology. It has also given faith-based religion—that great engine of ignorance and bigotry—a nearly uncontested claim to being the only source of moral wisdom. This has been bad for everyone. What is more, it has been unnecessary—because we can speak about the well-being of conscious creatures rationally, and in the context of science. I think it is time we tried.

Comments (23)

Sam, I love you, but this all seems needlessly messianic.  If you are trying to appeal to people who use revealed “truth” to inform their lives, I don’t think they are listening.  This debate will only fractionalize people who already trust in science to help form their opinions; and that’s all morality is “opinion”.  Energy would be better spent performing “good work” using science to solve problems then looking to science to solve the “problem” of what good work is.

posted on May 7, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Ignoring the fact/value distinction for a moment, I have a different complaint:

Your proposal relies pretty heavily on appeals to intuition, and I’m having a hard time understanding what the neuroscience is supposed to help us clarify. It seems like in the end what your proposal amounts to is using our good, liberal, consequentialist intuitions to justify our good, liberal, consequentialist intuitions—and the neuroscience is just for show. I mean, since you acknowledge that wellbeing doesn’t reduce to one particular factor, and since we’re supposed to use our intuitions about wellbeing to distinguish, a priori, the good from the bad, what are we supposed to discover in the fMRI scan that we didn’t “know” beforehand? Maybe I’ve missed something.

posted on May 7, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

3. Daniel Davis

Sam argues against the fact value distinction, by again and again asserting questions of value are “the same” as questions of fact, and those who doubt it are crazy people who don’t have to be taken seriously.

But why? Why are we treated to such nonsense?

Because Sam believes that the alternative to Objective Morality is moral relativism. I’m ok, and I refuse to judge you. Without Objective Morality, Evil will be unopposed.

Sound familiar? Ever hear a religious apologist say “Without God, we can have no Objective Morality, and so you couldn’t say that Hitler was wrong”?

Both Sam and the religious apologists equate those who do not believe the universe orders us to a single standard of value to those who will not assert their own values.

In Sam’s case, this is just dishonesty, to himself if not to us. Despite the numerous times people have pointed out that skepticism of Objective Morality does not necessarily entail lack of commitment to your own values, and a willingness to oppose those who transgress against them, Sam continues to equate the two and skip along his merry way.

Sam takes another play out of the religious apologist’s playbook, with “reason, science, and logic all entail commitment (i.e., faith) to a set of values anyway”. While I actually agree that the motivation to accept reason and logic presupposes values that one pursues, it is absurd to consider this “the same” as a commitment to a moral code.

Do any of you really have the same confidence in logic, reason, and the scientific method as you do in Sam’s derivation of the Absolute Objective Morality? Does Sam? If not, then it aint “the same”.

Sam first equated those who don’t accept his One True Morality to those who refuse to condemn anything, and ends by equating them with people who reject science, reason, and logic. Here is a novel thought for Sam - how about engaging your detractors based on what they are, instead of the straw men you say they are like?

Sam has the same problem as Rand - it is not enough to be free of religion, superstition, and moral codes that cripple your life, one must be Right, and your enemies must be Wrong. One must have the Sanction of the Universe for what one does, and be able to cram it down the other guy’s throat.

Sam jumps off the deep end with Objective Morality because he sees it as the only alternative to moral relativism. This is just a false dichotomy.

I reply because I see Objective Morality as the fundamental problem with religion, the essence of it, and not a cure for it.

When people believe they are following orders from the universe, they do not compromise, and they do not listen. They crush the enemy.

If we ever start taking responsibility for our own values, we can talk to each other and learn from each other, comparing notes on how best to achieve our values. We can argue with each other, and try to persuade the other guy based on his values. He may come to accept our arguments if he sees them better achieving his values, or we may change some of our values because the other guy has convinced us that is the best way to achieve other values we hold more dear.

That would be a truly open ended discussion of values, the kind the I’ve seen Sam profess to desired.

posted on May 7, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

I think the problem is that he’s making incompatible claims. He is saying on the one hand that our notions of morality stem from certain axioms, which are knowable a priori, and on the other that science can provide an empirical foundation for morality. These statements can’t both be true.

He wants “a universal foundation for morality,” and he hopes that neuroscience will provide the basis. But he uses philosophical arguments in the form of thought experiments to establish that morality is about maximizing wellbeing. He’s already built his foundation, in other words. Neuroscience clearly doesn’t function as the foundation for those arguments. Those arguments succeed or fail on their own terms, and they would do so whether or not we were in any position to map out the neural correlates of wellbeing. Again, ignoring for the moment whether science could in principle offer a foundation for morality, under Sam’s own formulation it does nothing of the kind (assuming that by “foundation” he doesn’t mean “arbitrary link in a chain of reasoning”).

He is trying to
1. establish a priori what is and is not a moral state of affairs (i.e., Does it maximize wellbeing?);
2. use neuroscience to map the neural correlates of wellbeing (the NCWB, if you like);
3. and pretend like the findings of (2) establish a foundation for (1). (Hint: they don’t.)

Sam’s own basis for morality is a priori, analytic, intuitive, philosophical. It is not scientific. Moral reasoning is not at odds with science, obviously enough, and it can be informed by science, but its justification certainly isn’t derived from science. Or maybe Sam is using words like “foundation” in an unconventional sense.

posted on May 7, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

I am an admirer of your work, Sam. Moral philosophy can be useful in advancing your realist/scientific view about morality. I suggest you check out some works by the so called Cornell realists in metaethics: Richard Boyd, Nicholas Sturgeon, & Peter Railton. There’s also another one from the University of Connecticut, Storrs. His name is Paul Bloomfield. He wrote a book called “Moral Reality”. It’s published by the Oxford University Press.

I think their ideas about morality are very similar to yours. They can help you develop a very strong argument for the kind of moral naturalism/realism you are trying to advance. There are many academic philosophers in your country who share your ideas, Sam. I think you need to work with some of them if you want to develop a very tight argument for your ideas

posted on May 8, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Replace ‘well-being’ with ‘preferability’ and you might finally be onto something. That’s the link between physics and morality. The degree and existence of preferability can be measured by behaviour in the face of competing commodities. I’ve yet to hear any moral critique that wasn’t synonymous with ‘Had you behaved in such and such way, preferable states of affairs would have occured.’ Every competing moral theory can, at best, tie one which maximizes preferability because every competing theory endorses consequent states of affairs we have good reason to beleive are less preferable than those of the preferability consequentialist’s.

posted on May 9, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

It makes little sense to me that the question of whether science can offer moral guidance is a question at all.  Psychology as a profession is built upon the the premise that human behavior and cognitions can be studied - and, it is largely driven by the goal of identifying ways to maximize human flourishing. The lessons learned from psychology filter into the collective zeitgeist slowly: sometimes productively, and sometimes not.

The controversy arises when one calls the lessons “morals.”  I infer that for some that there is a mystical injection here of something so obtuse that it cannot be defined.  It stirs questions of essentialism.  And questions of cultural relativism essentially come down to who draws what lines in the sand and where.  Who becomes the judge and jury? Does it not make sense to strive to draw these lines in an open, transparent, deliberative, non-ideological, evidence-based system, built on a foundation of pro-social prime directives? To me this makes infinitely more sense than giving a pass to bronze age institutions with not so clear objectives.  Perhaps we should part ways with the word itself and all the baggage and tainted history it brings.

posted on May 9, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Re. 3. Daniel Davis

1. Why not quote Sam instead of caricaturing his position and lying?

2. Never mind the likeness of the arguments of religious apologists. Sam stated in his TED talk: “The irony, from my perspective, is that the only people that seem to generally agree with me, and who think that there are right or wrong answers to moral questions are religious demagogs of one form or another.” He also expressed this idea in his Google Authors talk and in writing, which leads me to ask: What the hell are you basing your criticisms on? Or did you just forget that he said that?

3. “...skepticism of Objective Morality does not necessarily entail lack of commitment to your own values, and a willingness to oppose those who transgress against them…”

Even if it didn’t have to entail a lack of commitment and an unwillingness to oppose transgression, it all too often does. This also ignores Sam’s point that all value systems are at least parasitic on some notion of wellbeing, hence, there is a universal, and therefore objective, core value… which is a fact.

4. Why not quote Sam instead of caricaturing his position and lying?

5. I for one will cram freedom of speech down anyone’s throat any day of the week. Anyone not with me on this should move to Iran.

6. You’re a false dichotomy.

7. “I see Objective Morality as the fundamental problem with religion, the essence of it, and not a cure for it.”

Looks like someone needs to brush up on their Four Horseman mantras. The fundamental problem with religion is (everybody say it with me) faith (the belief-without-evidence kind)!

8. Re. Daniel’s Proposal: Sam has pointed out that there is much more consensus about morality than most people assume. Why pretend that we’re all doing our own individual thing, when the project we face is so obviously one that is common. Sam has also pointed out that not everyone is morally gifted, so not everyone’s opinion on the subject should count equally, and many, not at all (just like physics).

9. I’ve had to say ‘Sam’ six times, which means you could have read the answers to your criticisms for yourself. You were obviously wound-up when you wrote them, so maybe it would be best if next time you take a chill pill, a little more time, and then respond. There.

posted on May 9, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

9. Daniel Davis

Jason01, I admittedly didn’t engage in a point by point refutation of Sam because there seemed little point and less payoff. A web comments page is not a particularly good forum for detailed philosophical discussion.

I noted that Sam sees the danger of moral relativists in their inability to condemn barbaric practices, and tries to assert an objective morality to combat them. But when challenged by moral skeptics who are not moral relativists, he makes the same fallacious arguments against moral skeptics that religious apologists make against him and atheists in general. If Sam wishes to assert an Objective Morality, shouldn’t he engage the best arguments against it, and do so with arguments that he doesn’t reject when they are directed against him?

On your Mantra of the Four Horseman, I am unaware they have agreed on a dogma. While Dawkins and Harris would probably vote for the will to credulity as the problem with religion, I think Hitchens might go with the will to servitude instead.

Opposing the will to servitude at least has the advantage that it has rarely been tried, while Rationalist programs for Objective Morality have, with little success, and sometimes disastrous results.

As for my proposal, my point is that even without orders from the universe, given that we all live here and are all human, there is likely great commonality in “our own thing”, meaning that we could learn much from each other, and find peaceful and productive ways to cope where “our own things” are different. I believe that is what Sam actually wants, and would be better off advocating, instead of his warmed over Utilitarianism.

And yes, I was rather frustrated when I first replied.  Frustrated at Sam’s intellectually unserious arguments, and his squandering of an opportunity to move the argument against religion forward.

But a friend has since pointed out to me the error of my ways. I shouldn’t have been so surprised to find The Reason Project populated with atheists peddling Rationalist Objective Morality; there is ample historical precedent.

posted on May 9, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Re. 9. Daniel Davis

That’s some rich stuff there Mr. Davis. Real rich. Let us delve into the richness.

1. You whine of Sam being ‘intellectually unserious,’ while admitting that you wilfully ignored his argument due to an imaginary lack of payoff; a stupid ASSumption indeed. So that’s a choice you’ve made and now you’ve embarrassed yourself. Good.

2. You further whinge about web comments pages not being suitable for detailed philosophical discussions (cop out). Such discussion simply isn’t a requirement for pointing that certain statements are baseless. N.B. I didn’t just say you were wrong, I told you why. Which is a favour, I may point out, your response left unreturned. Thanks.

3. You take my use of the word ‘mantra’ too literally. Congratulations.

4. You keep saying ‘orders from the universe.’ Stop it.

5. “...given that we all live here and are all human, there is likely great commonality in “our own thing”, meaning that we could learn much from each other, and find peaceful and productive ways to cope where “our own things” are different.”

And you say you’re not a moral relativist. Funny stuff.

6. More ‘next time’ advise: Just end with, “Project Reason is a RED SCARE!” It’s quicker.

posted on May 9, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

It seems to me that Harris is essentially correct. Morality for essentially all of us is already about well-being. And the question “what is well-being?” is an objective question. It then follows that science, the most effective tool we have for understanding the world, can and should be used to help answer moral questions. I’m on board so far…l

posted on May 11, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

If your goal is to make a system of morality that functions like science in practice, as in it is a system that produces answers to questions within a known uncertainty, then you should clearly explain how the evaluative processes would work.  Your morality is based on maximizing the quantity of “well-being”, so how do you measure or evaluate this quantity?  I see three problems to measuring or evaluating this quantity, “well-being”.

1. How do you measure (or evaluate or compare) the “well-being” of different states within one individual person?  Does “well-being” correspond to positive states like happiness, and ecstasy?  Does maximizing “well-being” then mean living in a constant state of ecstasy?

2. How do you measure (or evaluate or compare) intensity of states vs. duration of states?  How does a very high state of “well-being” compare to a long enduring moderate state of “well-being”?

3.  How do you measure (or evaluate or compare) the “well-being” of the individual to the “well-being” of the collective?  This gets into the sticky issues of utilitarianism being based on the mean utility of the community, thus allowing outliers to live miserably.

If you cannot provide processes to answer these questions with known uncertainties, you will not produce anything better than moral relativism.

When you say, “Those who assumed that any emphasis on human “wellbeing” would lead us to enslave half of humanity, or harvest the organs of the bottom ten percent, or nuke the developing world, or nurture our children a continuous drip of heroin are, it seems to me, not really thinking about these issues seriously. It seems rather obvious that fairness, justice, compassion, and a general awareness of terrestrial reality have rather a lot to do with our creating a thriving global civilization—and, therefore, with the greater wellbeing of humanity.”

You seem to want to avoid any clear process for ethics derivation like what I am asking you to do, but if you do not develop some sort of ethics creating process with known uncertainty, and instead rely on what is obvious to you, you have gone no further than moral relativists have.

Some ethical questions I would like you to consider for your moral system:

How do you evaluate a woman who orgasms while being raped?

How do you evaluate me who left my parents church to claim atheism?  My mom did not sleep for a week, miserable that I was heading for hell, while I received very little change in my conscious state.  If I only consulted maximizing “well-being” does coming out to my mom as atheist still qualify as an ought?

I like the fact that you oppose the extreme liberal multi-cultural tendencies to support any non-western practices, no matter how repugnant, but do you really need to create a dubious science of morality to oppose those ideas?

posted on May 14, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Re. 12. Jonathan

If your goal is to make a system of MEDICINE that functions like science in practice, as in it is a system that produces answers to questions within a known uncertainty, then you should clearly explain how the evaluative processes would work.  Your MEDICINE is based on maximizing the quantity of “GOOD-HEALTH”, so how do you measure or evaluate this quantity?  I see three problems to measuring or evaluating this quantity, “GOOD-HEALTH”.

1. How do you measure (or evaluate or compare) the “GOOD-HEALTH” of different states within one individual person?  Does “GOOD-HEALTH” correspond to positive states like BEING ABLE TO RUN A MARATHON, and RUNNING A MARATHON?  Does maximizing “GOOD-HEALTH” then mean living in a constant state of MARATHON RUNNING?

2. How do you measure (or evaluate or compare) intensity of states vs. duration of states?  How does a very high state of “GOOD-HEALTH” compare to a long enduring moderate state of “GOOD-HEALTH”?

3.  How do you measure (or evaluate or compare) the “GOOD-HEALTH” of the individual to the “GOOD-HEALTH” of the collective?  This gets into the sticky issues of utilitarianism being based on the mean utility of the community, thus allowing outliers to live SICKLY.

If you cannot provide processes to answer these questions with known uncertainties, you will not produce anything better than MEDICAL relativism.

When you say, “Those who assumed that any emphasis on human “GOOD HEALTH” would lead us to enslave half of humanity, or harvest the organs of the bottom ten percent, or nuke the developing world, or nurture our children a continuous drip of heroin are, it seems to me, not really thinking about these issues seriously. It seems rather obvious that NUTRITIOUS FOOD, SAFETY, HOMEOSTASIS, and a general awareness of terrestrial reality have rather a lot to do with our creating a HEALTHY global civilization—and, therefore, with the greater GOOD HEALTH of humanity.”

You seem to want to avoid any clear process for THE TREATMENT AND PREVENTION OF DISEASE derivation like what I am asking you to do, but if you do not develop some sort of TREATMENT creating process with known uncertainty, and instead rely on what is obvious to you, you have gone no further than MEDICAL relativists have.

Some MEDICAL questions I would like you to consider for your MEDICAL system:

How do you evaluate a woman who HAS HER SKIN CANCER REMOVED while BEING RAVAGED BY A PIT-BULL TERRIER WITH RABIES?

How do you evaluate me who left my parents SEXUAL ORIENTATION to claim HOMOSEXUALITY?  My mom did not sleep for a week, miserable that I was heading for SEX WITH MEN, while I received very little change in my LIBIDO.  If I only consulted maximizing “GOOD-HEALTH” does coming out to my mom as A HOMOSEXUAL still qualify as HEALTHY?

I like the fact that you oppose the extreme liberal multi-cultural tendencies to support any non-western practices, no matter how repugnant, but do you really need to create a dubious science of MEDICINE to oppose those ideas?

posted on May 15, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

14. Daniel Davis

On the analogy between the concepts of health and well being, it doesn’t show what those who believe in objective morality think it shows.

People usually prefer being alive to being dead, but even here, many claim to prefer death by aging to life by not aging. Are you more or less healthy being happy on antidepressants? How much muscle mass is the most healthy? How much flexibility? How much muscle tone? What basal metabolic rate defines health?

In all these things, we find that there are tradeoffs, and what side of the tradeoff you prefer will likely determine which side you call healthy.

Though we have differences in our preferences, we also have commonalities While we would have disagreements on the issues above, who would prefer leprosy and call that health?

One can note the commonalities, and claim that therefore there is Objective Health.

I don’t think it is helpful. It leads some to forget that the Objective part of calling it healthy was the objective agreement of our subjective preferences. Time wasting, useless arguments over “true health” become inevitable.

I hope Sam, and neuroscientists in general, learn a lot about how to control our mental states. I think Sam would be better served by leaving it up to us to decide which of those states we prefer, instead of trying to convince us the universe is giving us orders on which to prefer.

posted on May 15, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Re. 14. Daniel Davis

Well, well, well. If it isn’t our good old friend, Mr. Danny ‘Boy’ Davis. I see you still haven’t got ‘round to readin’ up on Sam’s arguments. Ah well. It appears you’re barely able to read as it is, so it’s probably for the best. I mean, even if you did, it’s not like you want to contribute to a conversation about them, or respond to them or anything, am I right?

posted on May 15, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Congratulations to all participants in this blog, a fascinating discussion and a credit to the evolution of the human mind. I’m certainly enjoying it at my limited level of knowledge. Thanks to Sam Harris and his optimistic futuristic view of humanity based in science and not superstition.
In evolutionary terms, the human race has come a long way in the last 100 years or so. This gives me great encouragement for the future of humanity as we shake off the shackles of superstitions and discover the true joy of reasoned rationality. Imagine a world free of the religious component of situational ethics and it’s impediment to well being and sustainable morals.
Although I won’t see it in my lifetime, it gives me hope that groups like “Project Reason” or “The Zeitgeist Movement” and “The Venus Project” which are now in existence and their philosophies, which aren’t so pie in the sky after all.
In the natural evolution of our species, I now see that it’s the application of the scientific method for human social concern and the advance in technology and it’s humane application that is the only back to sustainable symbiosis with our planets natural systems that can guarantee our species longer term existence in the short term.
What are the alternatives, the return of Jesus or the 12th Imam or extinction? What are the choices we have? Wouldn’t it be great to see what wins out in the end. Although extinction is the most likely after our planet becomes uninhabitable for life as we know it by the expansion of our Sun or if not sooner because of a stay meteorite. Unless science and future technologies gives us much, much faster than light travel and an awesome spaceship it doesn’t look good long term after all, shit!
Evolve people, evolve before it’s too late.

posted on May 16, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Hi, some thoughts, a bit rushed but trying to determine what those ‘first principles’ might be.

In thinking about how the ‘scientific tenets’ would work it occurred to me that moral ‘rules’ are only needed because a very large majority of human-beings do very little thinking about what and who they are (sorry, jaded, cynical old git alert!!!). A very large proportion of the world’s people have not evolved in a way that allowed for the strong development of independent critical thinking. Pre-programmed by natural-selection to not rock-the-boat and ensure that the tribe remained successful by following one leader (or face being ‘naturally-selected’ out of the tribe) many humans seem to have evolved to respond to charismatic personalities that can provide clear and simple answers. So often it seems very many people recoil in horror at any attempt to get them to really think about something real or important. [Take for example difficulty in discussions about climate change, people are unable to discuss or rationalise their personal liability when it comes to their environmental impact (run the kids to school in the 4x4, to do their presentation on how using fossil fuels is accelerating global–warming. Then go home to write a letter of complaint to the local MP about traffic congestion at the school in the mornings)]
Subsequently when societies moved beyond the confines of the immediate tribal group and geographic location and countries began to emerge, religion stepped in to the void created allowing the tribe’s ideology to be adopted (or imposed) beyond the immediate extended family of the tribe. Religion’s grip on western society has been loosened over the centuries by other distractions and quick-fix philosophies (TV, football, shopping, electronic gadgets, the world-wide-web etc.). I contend that if people had, in general, a greater degree of self-awareness and were more pre-disposed to critical thinking rather than uncritical credulity we wouldn’t have to worry so much about these formalised rules for human interaction.
But we do have to and as this is the case we have to determine the fundamental tenets for beneficial human interaction.
One thing that is abundantly clear is that human-beings are social animals. Without the interaction and cooperation between individuals and groups of humans the human race would simply never have been. Thus, our interdependence is the key to our survival and development, while personal autonomy (or the illusion of it) and security provide for individual happiness (my assertion). A simple understanding of what human-beings mean to each other on an individual and social level is where I think we need to begin. One thing that is certain, the mill-stone of religiously inspired morals should be utterly discarded before embarking on any attempt to rationalise the ethical process by which human-beings can learn to co-exist in peace. Religions are the last hiding place for human prejudice and as such are utterly immoral. It is only religions and religiously-motivated organisations that seek exemptions from, or are trying to totally subvert human-rights legislation. No one else dares do this.
Human ethics can only be understood at a global level if we start from first principles and do not ‘assume god’. As Christopher Hitchens has so succinctly put it, “That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence” (I do like that). I have found that the jurisprudence that then follows is pretty straightforward. There are no real absolutes to be found here only the ethical process by which we can agree to live in balance with one another and the rest of nature.

posted on May 17, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

18. Arnold Archibald

Morality is the end product of an environmental process on a biological system.
Each layer can be studied as a science but the individuals outcome is unique.

Where morality could most commonly be described as standardised for scientific purposes is when both the emotional system that responds to the environment is in syncronization with logically balanced actions (“An eye for an eye” as it were).

In this case a psychopath is not syncronised and thus scientifically amoral.
Though they feel what they should, given their circumstances, their morality is not logically fair.
“An eye for a foot” so to speak.

Narcopathy can occur where no emotional response occurs in the brain and is therefore classified as amoral for any illogical action under these terms.

The case of a sociopath, by definition, is one where the being is aware of the moral logic but acts otherwise and thus is amoral.
This seems contradictary to do something that offends yourself.
The answer is in the complex nature of of an individuals morality which has routines for each situation.
A person with a moral standpoint against suicide may throw themselves upon a grenade if it is to save friends or achieve a greater task.
So morality has a situational hierarchy.
In the case of the grenade the person may be acting both morally and amorally at the same time regardless of action or inaction.

If we extend passed emotion as a comparator to logical morality and use the person’s awareness of logical morality instead then any person, regardless of pathology, can be classified under the same model.

posted on May 17, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Re. 16. envirodude

The Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project do not represent a progression of reason. The fact that your ‘limited knowledge’ has allowed you to put those organizations in the same sentence as Project Reason should concern you greatly. It certainly concerns me. I was following the movement for awhile, until I came to realize how intellectually and morally vacuous it is as an enterprise.

I don’t want these organizations to get away with a free plug, but I also don’t want to linger off the topic of this comment page, so I’ll try to stay essential.

The Venus Project promotes a number of despicable and cowardly ideas such as:
1. The replacement, and demolition, of all physical manifestations of civilization (bar one or two ‘museum cities’) with architecture based on the fantasies of a washed-up, senile old coot of a social engineer with no qualifications.
2. The sacrificial liquidation of all nation states.
3. The dedication of all the world’s resources, and therefore the consolidation of all worldly power, to a technocratic elite.

And how are they going to achieve these aims? They don’t really say. Enter: The Zeitgeist Movement (who don’t really say either).

The Zeitgeist Movement is the proclaimed ‘activist-arm’ of The Venus Project. It is group founded and lead by a very stupid man whose professional background is solely in marketing. It seeks to go worldwide. It’s constituency is comprised of three main demographics: The first is a portion of the audience (mostly young males) for the original Zeitgeist internet ‘documentary;’ a hideous, unintelligent, fear mongering piece of video-trash that outlined some crude ideas about a global conspiracy. The second are some credulous people who hadn’t a clue about economics or geopolitics, and had seen the addendum to the first ‘film.’ The third are people that the first and second have managed to recruit since the movement’s inception. All three basically represent people who don’t know what it means for a person to take responsibility for their own lives.

As one may have already deduced, the Zeitgeist Movement can be seen to share key traits with historical communist uprisings. The aforementioned ‘social engineer,’ Jacque Fresco insists his designs are scientific despite the fact that all the political science, in conjunction with many other fields, would indicate that a scheme, anything like the one he’s conceived, would be deeply catastrophic if it were to be implemented; a prime example of Lysenkoism (N.B. I highly recommend that anyone not familiar with this term research it).

The intended topic has been disrespected enough, so feel free to PM my arse if you want to argue or discuss this shit.

posted on May 20, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

i just thought envirodude was joking…

posted on May 22, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Sam, I am an atheist. Firstly I believe that objective morality does not exist but one can have subjective morals. Science in itself does not offer any morals as it is just an objective way of learning about the physical reality around us through prescribed methods. But, I agree that learning of science helps us to develop subjective morals. I was reared in a Catholic background and I became an atheist around 21 years age. Science did change the way I look at this world and my subjective morals. For example, when I was a religious person, I always thought that all other species are below our species and we have a special status because we were created specially by our creator in his image and others are not. But once I studied science that all species evolved from the same single celled life, I started viewing them as my equals and my fellow beings and I should treat them same way as I wish myself to be treated. Earlier I thought that all these non-human species were made for us and for our pleasure. When I understood that homosexuality is just a matter of sexual orientation, I could accept gay people in the way they are. When I understood that fetus is viable only when it reaches 28 weeks of age, I understood that all this cry against abortion is nonsense.  In that way, you can develop lot of subjective morals once you more about reality around us through science.

posted on June 4, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

I like the “science could reveal depths of well-being that most of us are unaware of, thereby changing our priorities” statement the best. It is a new voyage of discovery that has been here all along.

posted on July 20, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.

Nice article, and good comments (though I probably have a slightly different perspective than Sam, I think overall there’s a great deal of commonality). To paraphrase Jefferson (in a comment he made about the Christian religion), he explained that for our all our best efforts (and many of our worse) one thing is apparent from history, uniformity of thought is impossible.

Playing on the utilitarian theme Sam discusses, the harm principle (or what some might term negative liberty) is the only idea I’ve ever come across that really enjoys a deductive justification. Anytime we infringe on others without consent, we risk causing harm. Therefore, the only way to avoid the risk of harming others is to avoid nonconsensual infringement of liberty. So every man and woman should be free to pursue happiness, provided they do not do so at the expense of others.

However, since happiness is inherently subjective to the individual, no moral code and no top down attempt to guarantee universal happiness could ever succeed. Anytime we collectively try and guarantee the happiness of some, we unavoidably infringe on the liberty of others. Therefore, the only warrant society has as a collective is to protect its members from the deprivation of liberty by others.

In other words, our founders had it right from the beginning. We are endowed with liberty, not by a fictional creator, but rather by deductive logic. That liberty does mean a right to freely pursue happiness, however we choose to define it, so long as we don’t infringe on others in the process. There can be no guarantee of happiness, since such efforts can only serve to ultimately destroy liberty, the only possible basis for happiness. Our founders came up with a perfect formula, or at least the best possible compromise. To prevent social chaos and barbarism there must be a force empowered to prevent infringements on liberty. Since liberty is the property of individuals, then democracy is the only logical form of government. However, in their wisdom, and in recognition that tyranny often finds its genesis in the will of the majority, our founders created an undemocratic Bill of Rights to serve as our guiding principles. The judiciary, structured according to common law principles, a self-perfecting system guided by precedent, with fairness, reasonableness, and equity as its overarching considerations, free from legislative interference, is the only possible protector and enumerator of those rights. 

Simple!

posted on November 2, 2010
report this as inappropriate

You don't have permission to flag this entry.