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A Challenge To Atheists: Come Out Of The Closet

Richard Dawkins
Posted: February 9, 2010.
Published: May 15, 2006.

Print: RichardDawkins.net

A Challenge to Atheists: come out of the closet
by Richard Dawkins
In 1987, a reporter asked George Bush senior whether he recognized the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists. Mr Bush’s reply has become infamous:


“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots.”


To see how outrageous this is, substitute ‘Jews’ for ‘atheists’. Bush’s bigoted remark was not an isolated mistake, blurted out in the heat of the moment and later retracted. He and his spokesmen stood by it in the face of repeated calls for clarification or withdrawal . He really meant it. And knew that it posed no threat to his election. Quite the contrary, it is universally accepted that an admission of atheism would be instant political suicide for any presidential candidate.

The devout Joe Lieberman, who said something a little similar though less scandalous , was presumably added to Al Gore’s presidential ticket in an effort to court the Jewish vote. American Jewish voters constitute a respected lobby which, if newspapers are to be believed, is responsible for the USA’s relentless support of Israel, the Jewish state whose twentieth-century imposition on Palestine understandably affronted the people who already lived there. As we shall see when we look at numbers, however, it is by no means obvious why the Jewish vote is any more worth courting than the atheist vote. Except that American atheists have never got their act together and formed a proper lobby. If they did, they too could become very powerful. And that is what I want to urge.

To own up to being an atheist in America today is tantamount to introducing yourself as Adolf Beelzebub. Natalie Angier wrote a rather sad piece in the New Yorker called ‘The Lonely Atheist ‘. She clearly feels in a beleaguered and threatened minority, but she didn’t tell the half of it. Nor did Dave Silverman whose article, with almost the same title as mine, was brought to my attention after I had written my own . The latest issue of the admirable Freethought Today reprints hate mail received by the Editor after she won a court case upholding the separation of church and state. Some typical examples follow (the style and spelling are part of the Christian charm):


“Satan worshiping scum.” “Please die and go to hell.” “Hello, cheese-eating scumbags” [That one puzzles me. What’s with the cheese? RD] “Their are way more of us Christians than you losers. Their is NO separation of church and state and you heathens will lose . . . I hope you get a painful disease like rectal cancer and die a slow painful death, so you can meet your God, SATAN.” “Hey dude this freedom from religion thing sux . . . So you fags and dykes take it easy and watch where you go cuz whenever you least expect it god will get you.” “If you don’t like this country and what it was founded on & for [What would Thomas Jefferson have said? RD], get the fuck out of it and go straight to hell . . . PS Fuck you, you comunist whore.” “Get your black asses out of the U.S.A.” “You are without excuse. Creation is more than enough evidence of the LORD JESUS CHRIST’S omnipotent power [Why not Allah’s? RD]. If you think that the mathematical precision that governs the universe was established by random events then you truly are that class of IDIOT that cannot be aptly defined. We will not go quietly away. If in the future that requires violence just remember you brought it on. My rifle is loaded.”


But what, after all, is an atheist? Far from having horns and a tail, an atheist is simply a person who, when thinking about such matters at all, holds a particular view of the cosmos and of human nature. It is an academic matter, like favoring the Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Theory, hardly worthy of the sort of social and political ostracism that the word atheist almost universally provokes. In practice, an atheist is a person who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor, Baal, or the Golden Calf. As has been said before, we are all atheists about most of the gods humanity has ever believed in ? some of us just go one god further. Even if we define an atheist more theoretically, as one who seeks only naturalistic explanations and believes there are no supernatural beings of any kind, this surely qualifies as the kind of academic philosophic belief that a person is entitled to hold in a civilized democracy without being vilified as an unpatriotic, unelectable non-citizen, let alone threatened with a rifle.

Nor are we numerically as weak as you might think. The U.S. Census asks no questions about religion, but in 2001 the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS), made by an authoritative team at the City University of New York, followed up the 1990 survey known as the NSRI (National Survey of Religious Identification) . It makes surprisingly encouraging reading. Christianity, of course, claims the lion’s share of the population: nearly 160 million adults. But what do you think is the second largest group, convincingly outnumbering Jews (2.8 million), Muslims (1.1 million), Hindus, Buddhists, and all other religions put together? The second largest group, numbering nearly 30 million adults, is the one described as nonreligious or secular. That figure has more than doubled since 1990. Numbers of practicing Jews have decreased 10% during the same period. A consciousness-raising exercise that encouraged atheists, including lapsed Jews, to “come out” might have a massive impact on the American electorate, enough to worry the modern-day equivalents of George Bush Senior.

In terms of head counts, then, it is not obvious that a properly organized atheist lobby should have less political clout than the Jewish lobby which it outnumbers ninefold. But when political analysts are asked why the Jewish lobby is so much stronger politically than voting numbers would suggest, they typically draw attention such factors as wealth, influence in the media, education, and intelligence. How do atheists measure up in these departments? Neither ARIS nor NSRI break down their data by socio-economic class, educational achievement, or IQ. But a recent article by Paul G. Bell in Mensa Magazine provides some straws in the wind. Mensa is an international organization open only to those of high measured IQ. Not surprisingly, therefore, its magazine displays an interest in questions of intellectual ability. From a meta-analysis of the literature, Bell concludes that:


Of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one’s intelligence or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one’s intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious . . .”


The four exceptions didn’t show the opposite, of course. They merely failed to show statistical significance in either direction. I haven’t seen the original 42 studies on which the meta-analysis is based, so I don’t know how reliable it is. I would like to see more studies along these lines. Incidentally, many of the brightest atheists in the country are, of course, lapsed Jews.

In 1998, Larson and Witham polled the cream of American scientists, those who have been honoured by election to the elite National Academy of Sciences . Among this select group, belief in a personal God dropped to a shattering 7%. About 20% call themselves agnostic, and the rest are atheists. Similar figures obtain for belief in personal immortality. Among biological scientists elected to the National Academy, only 5.5% believe in a god. I have not seen corresponding figures for elite scholars in other fields such as history or philosophy, but it would be surprising if they were very different.

We have reached a truly remarkable situation, then: a grotesque mismatch between the American intelligentsia and the American electorate. A philosophical opinion about the nature of the universe, which is held by the great majority of America’s top scientists and probably by the elite intelligentsia generally, is so abhorrent to the American electorate that no candidate for popular election dare affirm it in public. If I am right, this means that high office in the greatest country in the world is barred to the very people best qualified to hold it, unless they are prepared to lie about their beliefs: American political opportunities are loaded against those who are simultaneously intelligent and honest.

I am not a citizen of this country, so I hope it will not be thought unbecoming if I suggest that something needs to be done. I have already hinted at what I think that something is. We need a consciousness-raising ‘coming out’ campaign similar to the campaign organized by homosexual activists a few years ago (although heaven forbid that we should stoop to publicly ‘outing’ people against their will). Those who come out will by their example destroy the myth that there is something wrong with atheists. On the contrary, they will demonstrate that atheists are often the kinds of people who could serve as decent role models for children; the kinds of people an advertising agent could profitably employ to recommend a product; the kinds of people who are listed with pride on atheist web sites . Their example will persuade even the hate-mongers whom I quoted earlier to reserve their vitriol for worthier targets. And there should be a snowball effect: a positive feedback such that the more names we have, the more we get. There could be non-linearities ? threshold effects: when a critical mass has been attained, there is an abrupt acceleration in recruitment.

I suspect that the word atheist itself remains a stumbling block far out of proportion to what it actually means: and, importantly, a stumbling block to people who otherwise might be happy to ‘come out.’ Agnostic was preferred over atheist by Darwin himself, and not only out of loyalty to his friend Huxley who coined it. Darwin said:


“I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. I think that generally… an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind.”


He became uncharacteristically aggravated on the subject. On meeting Edward Aveling, a militant atheist who had failed to persuade Darwin to accept the dedication of his book on atheism , Darwin challenged him: “Why do you call yourselves atheists?”

“Agnostic,” retorted Aveling, was simply “atheist writ respectable,” and “Atheist was simply agnostic writ aggressive.”

Darwin complained: “But why should you be so aggressive?” He went on to suggest that atheism might be well and good for the intelligentsia, but that ordinary people were not “ripe for it.” Darwin’s attitude reminds me of those latter-day pro-evolution campaigners I have encountered, anxious that atheists should not rock the boat (so assiduously steadied by religious evolutionists, from the Pope to Kenneth Miller ).

A friend, an intelligent lapsed Jew who observes the Sabbath for reasons of cultural solidarity, describes himself as a Tooth Fairy Agnostic. He will not call himself an atheist because it is in principle impossible to prove a negative. But “agnostic” on its own might suggest that he thought god’s existence or non-existence equally likely. In fact, though strictly agnostic about both, he considers God’s existence no more probable than the Tooth Fairy’s. Hence the phrase Tooth Fairy Agnostic. Bertrand Russell used a hypothetical teapot in orbit about Mars for the same didactic purpose. You have to be agnostic about the teapot, but that doesn’t mean you treat the likelihood of its existence as being on all fours with its non-existence. The list of things about which we strictly have to be agnostic doesn’t stop at tooth fairies and celestial teapots. It is infinite. If you want to believe in a particular one of them ? teapots, unicorns or tooth fairies, Thor, or Yahweh ? the onus is on you to say why you believe in it. The onus is not on the rest of us to say why we do not. We who are atheists are also a-fairyists, a-teapotists and a-unicornists, but we needn’t bother saying so.

Nevertheless, if we want to attract more nonreligious secularists to “come out” in public, we are probably going to have to find something better to stick on our banner than Tooth Fairy or Teapot Agnostic. How about Humanist? This has the advantage of a worldwide network of well-organized associations already in place. For me it suffers from apparent anthropocentrism. One of the main things we have learned from Darwin is that the human species is only one among millions of cousins, some close and some distant.

Another candidate for the banner is “Naturalism.” Natural is chosen in opposition to supernatural. Ursula Goodenough, author of The Sacred Depths of Nature, is a non-confrontational atheist who calls herself a “religious naturalist”. She adds religious, because, quite rightly, she resents the hijacking by supernatural religions of the poetic sense of awe and wonder that fills the breast of any scientist worthy of the name. I have made much the same point in Unweaving the Rainbow, except that I prefer not to use the confusing word religious. I also think naturalist is confusing, and Darwin would surely agree. To him naturalist meant student of nature, and some of the best naturalists, from Gilbert White down, have been clergymen. Others, perhaps including the British lynch mob which last year attacked a pediatrician whom they had mistaken for a pedophile, might confuse naturalism with nudism.

Perhaps the best of the available euphemisms for atheist is nontheist. It lacks the connotation of positive conviction that there is definitely no god, and it could therefore easily be embraced by Teapot or Tooth Fairy Agnostics. It is less familiar than atheist and lacks its phobic connotations. Yet, unlike a completely new coining, its meaning is clear. If we want a euphemism at all, nontheist is probably the best. The alternative, which I favour, is to renounce all euphemisms and grasp the nettle of the word atheism itself, precisely because it is a taboo word carrying frissons of hysterical phobia. Critical mass may be harder to achieve than with some non-confrontational euphemism, but if we did achieve it with the dread word atheist, the political impact would be all the greater.

Comments (40)

I experienced the taboo attached to the term “atheist” from my dad… himself an atheist. He recoiled when I said I was an atheist, but when I asked him whether or not he was one himself (which I knew him to be), he had to admit that he supposed he technically was - he had just never labeled himself that before. I think there is a difference in generations here aswell - bearing in mind that Dawkins is of my dad’s generation - I’ll say generally. I also had two grandparents who were old-school atheists- they were just silent about it. They didn’t believe, so they didn’t go to church. No one said grace at the table. If anyone had ever asked them if they were religious, they would have said no, but otherwise, it was that-of-which-we-do-not-speak-its-name. NO ONE used the word atheist.

I’m with Dawkins here - use the term. It’s time to shake up the establishment. I am an atheist and proud of it.

posted on February 9, 2010
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2. Brent Bowen

Once again another brilliantly worded piece by Richard Dawkins!  Thank you for your advise to ‘come out of the closet’. Thank you for your insight into the value of annoncing what we don’t believe.  And thank you, Mr. Dawkins, for returning my faith in humanity!!

I’ll take you up on your challange. In the effort to reduce being shunned by clients, friend and neighbors I’ve carefully labeled myself nontheIst. In the spirit of affecting greater change I’m changing my official label to Atheist!  ...and damn proud of it!

posted on February 9, 2010
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One Columbia University professor tried to have Professor James Hyslop fired when he found out about Hyslop’s interest in psychical research.  In his defense, Hyslop, noting scientific efforts to find a species of useless fish to support Darwin’s theory, asked “why is it so noble and respectable to find whence man came, and so suspicious and dishonorable to ask and ascertain whither he goes?”

posted on February 11, 2010
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“atheists,” are creepy to the american majority. right or wrong, believing in something has become so part of human nature that atheists appear foreign and somehow rebellious, yucky and damaged goodsish. They appear detached, heartless and cruel, because the message seems to be we are all going to die for eternity and we are animals AND I"M OK WITH THAT. Most people are not okay with that. The mere mention of being an atheist challenges that fact and threatens to pull people from their life raft of belief. This is all very simple. As a non-theist myself I tend to keep quiet because I realize that religion is what’s keeping most people going.

posted on February 14, 2010
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5. John Wilkinson

I would just like to add to dawkins criticism of humanism as anthropocentric. I don’t accept it for the related reason that I don’t worship the human being which is how it sounds to me. That’s the whole point! I don’t worship anything, I prefer to think and criticize. It is not self-evident to me that humans are the animals most worthy of worship at any rate. Humans are capable of King Lear and the B minor mass. On the other hand of Auschwitz and 9/11. It seems our capacity is simply greater on all sides so to speak. If you just have to worship seems the dolphin might be a safer bet. Or as George Carlin quips, Joe Pesci as he notes his prayers get answered at about the same rate.

posted on February 14, 2010
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6. Louwrentius

From what I read and watch on television, in America, Atheists are regarded as a-moral. Since they do not believe in God, they have no moral standards. Atheist eat babies and just plain dangerous.

So if you turn this around, it means that belief in God and Religion is a moral compass for most people and it is this notion that should be rigorously questioned. The discrimination against same-sex couples. The violence and opposition against abortion and euthanasia.

A lot of suffering and injustice is directly caused by these medieval beliefs. And we should actively discuss it, wherever possible.

posted on February 14, 2010
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After having read this I’m truly glad to be a European. Apart from certain elements of Islamic origin no one really cares whether you are religious or not and that is exactly how it should be.

posted on February 14, 2010
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G.Geurtsen - what you describe sounds utopian. That is the direction things are moving in my native Canada, too. Especially the younger generations - those now taking over the workforce. It’ll be interesting to see what happens when they take over the political spectrum, too. Who knows… maybe the rationality will seep across the border.

posted on February 15, 2010
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DebG- as you may well know, Europe has had a long history of religious persecution, wars and political strife. It strikes me as peculiar that the USA of all countries should be so harsh on people who are not religious. Weren’t the Founding Fathers religious fugitives themselves?

posted on February 15, 2010
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There’s an idea that sometimes people need to get a real snoot-full of something before they feel the need to change it. Perhaps America hasn’t hit its “rock bottom” yet with the religious fundamentalists. And it is roundly accepted that those who don’t remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

Is there a sense of that in Europe?

posted on February 15, 2010
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DebG-I think there is a link, allthough not always conscious, between the rejection by lots of native Europeans of certain explicit ways of expression of religious fervour within the Islamic community that reminds them of things that happened in a not too distant past. Personally I don’t want any religion to interfere with my private life. I don’t want people to tell me that euthanasia is forbidden practise, that it is wrong to go shopping on Sundays etc. A lot of Europeans feel the same and they are glad to be rid of the social conventionality of old days which certainly in many ways weren’t Good Old Days!

posted on February 16, 2010
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I would love to “come out of the closet” and let others know that I’m an atheist. But as a professor with no tenure, I don’t think it would be wise. I live in a conservative state with a conservative student body. And with more potential budget cuts I don’t want to take any chances.

posted on February 17, 2010
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G. - I’m currently re-reading “Infidel” by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She writes and speaks alot about Islamic issues in Europe. Are you familiar with her? Is Islam spreading there as much as she and others have made it sound? (I see you’ve mentioned it a couple of times just in this thread.) In the US, our religious fundies are evangelicals - there they are muslims?

posted on February 17, 2010
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Dawkins and the other so-called “New Atheists” don’t get it.  None of them felt indoctrinated as children and none of them understand the culture of the American South.  My “coming out atheist” would break the hearts of those I love who sincerely believe that it means my eternal damnation.  I get the parallel with gays, many of whom have loved ones who feel that their sexuality dooms them in the same way, but hiding one’s atheism doesn’t put the same strain on one’s life.  Hiding my atheism doesn’t force me to act out in the same way that hiding my sexuality would.  It’s not worth coming out to those who will never understand.  No amount of consciousness-raising will disavow them of their most precious beliefs, and the disruption to my family life isn’t worth it.

posted on February 17, 2010
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You are making the choice not to come out.  That’s on you.  Don’t blame Dawkins or anyone else for asking you to do what’s right and responsible.  If your loved ones don’t understand, then take it upon yourself to educate them.  As long as we keep operating under tha assumption that people “will never understand,” we will impede our own progress and waste another generation simply accepting people’s ignorance.  The bottom line is that it is your decision to make.  it’s not fair to claim that anyone else doesn’t get it.

posted on February 18, 2010
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DebG-Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a member of VVD, a party for ‘classic’ liberalism. In the Netherlands it is considered to be a right wing party. Most members are well to do middle class people, often self-employed or intellectual. They are staunch individualists, not necessarily atheists though, in favor of capitalist society. Most of all: they have always defended the rights of homosexuals and women. Iwas a member of this party untill very recent. I moved to another party, also liberal but much smaller. My new party cares more about the environment and has better ideas about democracy in the European Union. I don’t know Ayaan Hirsi Ali personally, but I support her (AHA-)organization financially. And yes indeed, there a lot of Muslims settling in Europe without adapting to our norms and values. This is quite unnerving to European women, in Switserland for instance, who only recently are considered equal to men. Swiss women gained the right to vote in the nineties of the last century.

posted on February 18, 2010
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17. John Wilkinson

To myself and Vesna: don’t you find it condescending to assume you have to protect your loved ones and/or students(!) from what is true? I would hope to persuade you that it matters greatly whether or not religious dogmas are criticized. It seems to me that we exacerbate human and animal suffering greatly every day that religious myths hold sway over peoples moral ideas. Now obviously you can’t force people to read books, but can’t one say directly, “I don’t believe in any iron age fairy tales.” If someone wants to know why, then you might well free them of errors in their thinking.

posted on February 18, 2010
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DebG-Speaking about the Netherlands: yes, we do have religious fundamentalists among Christians. They don’t wield any political power whatsoever. The only European countries where Christian fundamentalism wields any power are Poland and Ireland. These countries are very Catholic. In most other European countries politics and religion are separate entities.

posted on February 18, 2010
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19. Eddie Zawaski

Mr. Dawkins is probably right to suggest that atheists should “come out”.  The difficulty with doing this, however, is that Christians control public discourse in America so the process of declaring ones self an atheists gets twisted in a very theological way.  If a person makes a public statement about personal religious attitudes, such a statement is generally considered a statement of belief, a profession of faith.  When I publicly declare that I am an atheist, Christians hear something different than what I meant by that statement.  They interpret my atheism as a form of religious practice.  The following of a ritual, the use of prayer, membership in a congregation, and a theology to explain life’s mysteries are all assumed to be a part of my life.  It is assumed that I have faith in a belief system even though I may believe nothing.  This is the primary reason that most atheists stay in the closet or adopt the more acceptable label of agnostic.  However, this difficulty is also precisely the reason why we should come out of the closet.  Defining ourselves as atheists can help to break that iron-clad cultural perception that everybody has a religion, that everybody must believe in something.  Once atheists come out into the arena of public discourse they will crush the silly notions that Christians promulgate that we are Satan worshippers dressed in lab coats.

posted on February 19, 2010
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Maybe I look at this stuff just a bit different.
I won’t come out because I feel that ones choice about religion or ones beliefs are personal choices.
When someone in conversation brings up that they are Christian, or Jewish, it’s like….who cares? 
If Athiests “come out” it will only look like we are trying to “convert” others to our view.  Otherwise…what’s the point?
“Coming out” makes about as much sense as me walking up to you saying “Hey, I like hockey.”.  Your response would possibly be something along the lines of “And I’m supposed to care because…?”
My personal life is just that…personal.  It’s nobody’s business but mine.  Why should I tell others?

posted on February 19, 2010
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Because beliefs are not private. They determine values and behavior and so impact the rest of us. Has this argument not gotten through at all? May I recommend a book entitled “The End of Faith” by a guy named Sam Harris…

posted on February 19, 2010
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G. - “In most other European countries politics and religion are separate entities.”

Yeah, they are supposed to be in America, too. The problem comes from the unfortunate fact that so many of our higher-ups are fundie christians themselves, and between pursuing their own agendas and pandering to their electorate, push the separation of church and state till its seams are bursting.

What you describe as a right wing party sounds almost nothing like our right wingers here, either. Gay rights? Pro choice? That would be political suicide for a republican. At least at the national level.

posted on February 20, 2010
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@edubow & John Wilkinson

I think this highlights a real distinction among those of us in the “reality-based community”.  Those of you who have never been indoctrinated don’t seem to understand that religious belief is part of one’s identity.  It’s obvious to me that I cannot simply use logic to disavow my loved ones of their superstitions.  You cannot educate people out of their irrational beliefs in this area.  It’s not as if they are mistaken about a tax law or something.  I came out of my religiosity as a teenager and it was utterly traumatic.  When you think that life is inherently meaningful - not simply imbued with the meaning you give it - the realization is unsettling, to say the least.  To imply that I could sit my elderly loved ones down and talk them out of it is laughable.  It would be cruel even if it were effective, and Dawkins, et al. don’t seem to get it.

posted on February 20, 2010
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DebG-I often get the notion that your higher-ups are not so fundamentalist at all. They have to please certain fundamentalist groups in American society to be able to come to power. Ronald Reagan did it,  Barack Obama did it as well. America is a Christian nation, practically a theocracy. Europeans probably owe much of the division between Church and State to the long-established presence and influence of Socialist and Liberal parties on political decision making (1848 was a crucial year in this respect in both France and teh Netherlands). Is is very odd to see the Socialist parties now taking the side of Muslim immigrants. They are doing this for all the right reasons (being anti-fascist for instance), but at the same time putting at stake acquisitions like Women’s Righs etc.

posted on February 21, 2010
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Myself: 

I can only imagine how difficult it would be to openly discuss your convictions in such an environment.  Nobody, including Dawkins, can claim to understand each person’s situation.  it is hard enough sometimes for me to explain my point of view, and I am by no means surrounded by ultra-religious people.  However, I think Dawkins is trying to make the point that, from a European’s point of view looking in, America has a problem.  The proble, lies in the fact that religion is constantly being incorporated in political decision-making, and that people who disagree with that have a responsibility to say so.  Perhaps if you cannot yourself be open about your personal beliefs or non-beliefs, you can at least talk to the younger folks around you about the fact that alternative points of view exist and are not necessarily wrong.  I agree that you will likely not be able to reason with older people on this subject, given that they have decades of indoctrination under their belts.  However, there may be something you can do within your community to spread reason. 
Again, nobody can possibly know about your personal situation, and for anyone to tell you otherwise is foolish.  But for Dawkins or anyone else to ask that people be open about their logic, does not necessarily mean that they don’t understand.  It is simply their way of trying to contribute on a broad scale.

posted on February 21, 2010
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G. - “I often get the notion that your higher-ups are not so fundamentalist at all”

In some instances, yes. But I have one word for you: Dubya. If that’s not a case of a fundie in a high place, I don’t know what is. Then again, we now have Obama who, many of us in the reason community believe, is most likely not a Christian (or belonging to any other religion) at all. The man is far too intelligent to believe in fairy tales, but it would end his career faster than anything were he to admit it. And you are right - he does pander to the religous base. But he has at the very least been the first president to give nonbelievers a mention, and more than once! Hallelujah!! It ain’t much, but it’s better than what we had before which was nothing. (In fact, two presidents ago, Bush Sr said publicly, “No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens.”) I remember an interview with Bill Maher in which he was asked about Obama’s Christianity, and his reply was a nonchalant, “Yeah, but he’s lying. I have no problem with false piety.” He, like most of us, understands that we will not have a president who isn’t religious (or at least claiming to be) anytime soon.

It certainly seems that the state of muslim immigration in Europe is becoming a larger and larger problem. After reading Hirsi Ali, and speaking with friends who have spent time in Europe, that integration is of utmost importance. How can the Socialists/Liberals deny the facts? In particuIar, what you said about women’s rights?

posted on February 21, 2010
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DebG-I like Barack Obama and I am truly glad he is your President. The Dutch Cabinet has just fallen over the issue of Dutch soldiers staying to join the NATO mission in Afghanistan or not. I am truly disappointed about this. I was in Afghanistan in 1976 and witnessed the fact that women had no rights at all. Remember, the Taliban didn’t even exist at that time! I remember the face of one girl, who went unveiled because she possibly belonged to a tribe of which women didn’t need to go veiled at that time. I remember that she was afraid to look me in the eye however. At that time I started to realize that I was a representative of a superior culture, non-religious and ‘open’. I don’t know what will happen next in the Netherlands. My vote will go to those politicians who will defend human rights and western culture.

posted on February 21, 2010
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Mr. Dawkins, you are correct, a-theists, in all of our varieties, must make a stand. It has taken me thirty four years to get my “intellectual act” together and summon the courage to “come out of the closet.” The fact that I’m Black and was raised by a Christian mother (a registered nurse) and a Muslim/Nation of Islam father (a N.Y,C. police officer), made my intellectual and spiritual journey slightly more challenging than many of my contemporaries. For most of my life I have felt entombed by Judaism, Christianity and Islam and very apprehensive about expressing my doubts concerning their veracity.

I have lived in predominantly Black neighborhoods most of my life and have witnessed firsthand, both the positive and the negative effects of communities ablaze with religiosity. It is my position that, critical questioning, critical thinking, reasoning and rationality must be introduced and inculcated into the minds of all children and especially children in the Black communities.

In November of 2008 I started a blog on the Virginian Pilot community page entitled, The African American Agnostic. I have also started writing my first book, which will confront much of the deeply rooted Christian and Islamic dogma that has hounded me most of my life. My objective is not to create acrimony and disruption but to encourage other freethinkers of color to offer alternative modes of thinking and problem solving to the Al Sharptons, Jesse Jacksons, T. D. Jakes, Fred Prices, Louis Farrakhans et al, of this world.

posted on February 21, 2010
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29. MajorityofOne

I love Richard Dawkins, but I still have the courage to come out to my family. I have tried in the past and was disowned. I was ridiculed, ignored, not invited to Thanksgiving dinner, etc. and that was just by saying that I was having doubts! I didnt even say the A-word.

I agree with “Myself.” But know Richard’s compassion, I think he can probably understand our unique situation of living in the southern US. My elderly parents and grandparents are afraid not to believe.

Also, I don’t think it is as easy an issue as people make it out to be. It isn’t just about ignorance. I know a lot of very smart people who are believers. They use their massive intellect to do amazing mental gymnastics to prove to themselves they’re right.

I saw a comment made by someone on another website: “religion is just a neurological defect in the part of the brain that can’t stand being wrong.” I think there’s a lot more to that than we want to believe. A lot of my relatives have put a lot of time, energy and effort into church and being a believer and they don’t want to be wrong. What I’m doing when I say I don’t believe is to say “you’re flat out wrong in everything you believe in, give your time and money to, and hang your very life on.”

That is a lot to throw at some people.

posted on February 27, 2010
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What many people who grew up in non religious homes don’t seem to understand, is how seriously fundamentalists take whether or not their family members believe in their god.  An admission of not believing in that god causes a rift that may never heal. 
If you were faced with losing the people you care about most, or just keeping your beliefs to yourself, what would you do?  Unfortunately that is a choice that young agnostics and atheists have to make in fundamentalist cultures. 
Fortunately I grew up in a home that was moderate when it came to belief, but it still isn’t always easy.  I was lectured once for posting things on facebook that were too atheist for my mother’s liking, because the rest of the family could see it, and she didn’t want that, like my atheism was a dirty secret or something.
Btw, I make damn sure it’s not a secret anyway, probably too often actually.  But considering that declining to participate in prayer before a meal at my aunts place is a glaring offense, and as my sister wisely pointed out; “rude,” well I figure I might as well swing for the fences when it comes to being open about such matters.

posted on March 2, 2010
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i’ve often come across this phrase….“those without faith”, “the faithless”, you’ve “lost your faith”.  The word ‘faith has been hijacked by religion.  After telling someone i’m an atheist i sometimes get that look from them, that sad look and then they say “so you have no faith?”  If anything as atheists we have to have an ocean full of faith to continue believing what we believe because all around us is religion.  Don’t let them claim ownership of that word “faith”. We have plenty of it.

posted on March 4, 2010
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Perfect. Perfect.

posted on March 6, 2010
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A very interesting discussion here. 

I am not an Atheist but I do follow Native American spirituality.  It’s been my experience that the majority (not all) of the folks that would have a problem with Atheists or any other spirituality, or lack thereof, other than their own are Christians.  They have somehow forgotten that their own teachings are based on those much older than their own.

Come out of the closet?  Yes, you probably should.  Use the inevitable bashing to educate the rest of them that their spirituality may be right for them but there is nothing that says it’s right for everyone.

NotPC
NoPCHere.com

posted on March 23, 2010
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34. G. Geurtsen

@NotPC
I can only say that I totally agree with you. Atheists should not have a reason to remain stuck in their closets. Monotheism seems to be the main source of intolerance towards people who believe otherwise.

posted on March 25, 2010
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One of the biggest problems in America’s future is the scary fact that devout religious people (on average less intelligent) are reproducing at a much higher rate than strong agnostics and atheists (on average more intelligent). The children of the devout have an obvious high likelihood in following their parents footsteps, especially when their communities are very similar. One can even see the projections of the 2010 census and notice that bible belt and south-western states are picking up a relatively large number of congressional seats from the north-eastern states. Scary projections going forward for a country with such powerful military and economic resources.

What to do…federal education regulations to get between parents and kids to prevent the lineal spread seem like the least crazy method of stopping the trend, but even it poses some serious political problems. One sure as hell can’t go down there and argue it out..haha…imagine devout religious people hearing a argument against the rationality of religious belief and being like, “Oh wow I never looked at it that way, this stuff is BS”. I always hoped that the internet and the spread of information would somehow combat this type of thing, but as most people who surf the web realize, it is filled with just as much, if not more, of the crazy as it is the rational.

Perhaps a coherent political lobby could do something toward stopping this dangerous and seemingly inevitable trend. Good luck to us fighters.

My two cents

posted on March 26, 2010
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Great discussion. I have the same dilemma as Vespa and Myself. But in the end, Dawkins is correct.  For me, it is not worth the trouble of trying to convince relatives, and I will be more vocal at work when I get tenure. One can still participate in the debate anonymously, and should!

posted on March 26, 2010
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I’ve come out.  But I would appreciate help participating with my friends/family…

- Pray for me because (event invoking desire for positive outcome)

- I’ll pray for you.  (How to not seem ungrateful)

- Dinner time - “who wants to say grace?”

- Marriage, Death, etc. 

Prayer lubricates, atheism can appear non-supportive.

How can we find the words to support our fellow humans in the difficult path through life?

posted on March 28, 2010
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38. j.p.christiansen

The Riders.

The poor thugs of Islam
don’t know what they’re up against!

They struggle, lie, and cheat,
in their futile attempt to force Sharia
into Europe’s hard-won democracy,
without knowing that it possesses
a self-adjusting mechanism of love
so ever-more powerful than their hate.

They forget the wars we’ve fought, and won,
against Communism and National Socialism,
whose goons Muslims collaborated with,
as well as Christianity’s assorted off-shoots,
and all such un-earthly nonsense;

they forget the human hearts and souls sacrificed,
tortured, burned, and killed through religion…
human beings whose fate we keep dear in mind,
and whose sufferings we honor by saying “No!”,
to the immature antics of Islam’s jihadists.

The poor thugs of Islam
don’t know what they’re up against,
and now that they’ve had their juvenile ‘fun’,
it’s time to show’em just who we are.

Allow us to introduce ourselves:

We are the P.F.E.,
the Party For Earth,
and we’re getting ready
to take over the whole shebang,
continents, nations, religions, and creed,
un-willing, through ignorance and tribal allegiance,
to subordinate the past to love and democracy;

we are the atheists riding white horses
sounding their hooves in the night,
and come to liberate humanity
from sorrows of tyranny;

we are the riders
of freedom.
========================================

posted on April 12, 2010
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@Norton

Atheists can say many supportive things.

“You are in my thoughts”,
“My thoughts are with you and your family”,
“Sending well wishes your way”,
“I’m hoping for a very speedy recovery”,
etc.
As for saying grace? Don’t volunteer for the job! lol.  But if they make you,  say:
“thanks for the wonderful food and thanks to those who worked so hard to cook it and made it enjoyable for everyone. It is appreciated greatly!”

There are so many ways to “lubricate” without praying.  For instance, someone told me “May God truly bless you”.  I then thanked them for their kind words and said “I hope you are blessed in life in many wonderful ways”.

posted on May 4, 2010
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What I don’t understand is how religious individuals view themselves as ‘better beings’ over those who are irreligious (atheists included, of course). In this life, every human understanding is man-made, making none more right than any other. Besides, who is to determine the rights and wrongs of society? None, because morality is self-derived, and should remain that way. We are all equals and in our own right. Unfortunately, bias gets the best of everyone, making such a life stance near-incomprehensible to the majority.

posted on November 6, 2011
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